Where do I start?!?!?!

[lightschuh]

I am 19 and have been collecting records for about 6 years now. About a year ago I went to United Record Pressing and i've always wanted to create vinyl myself. So, i've trying to get in contact with some vinyl mastering engineers and not gotten ahold of any. I asked my friend from Third Man Records, Ben Blackwell, what i should do and he directed me here. I now don't even know where to start. Please help!
Joshua

[opcode66]

What do you want to do? Cut records? If so, you need cash. And plenty of it.

A full lathe setup even with older mono technology is going to cost you anywhere up to $1,000. A semi pro lathe costs $10,000. A pro lathe costs $20,000 - $30,000. I know I didn't have that kind of cash when I was 19.

Look on eBay for vinyl lathe, record cutter, cutterhead, etc. Any old Presto or Rek-o-Kut will be a good place to start. Again, the old portables are mono only. And, the sound quality is lacking (pops, hiss, static). Certainly not going to give you very loud cuts either.

Good Luck. Keep asking questions!

[lightschuh]

I knew that this was going to be an expensive hobby to pursue (especially record cuting) and i don't have that kind of cash laying around. so what would you do if you were in my shoes? I want to learn the ins and outs of record cutting, but i live in central illinois where there isn't anyone around (that i know of) that cuts records. Is there some sort of course i could take or any classes someone could recommend to me for college courses? i only go to a community college so my sources there are limited.

[concretecowboy71]

Two places in IL that I am aware of.

Prairie Cat Mastering
Chicago Mastering

I had to travel thousands of miles in my car to reach the right people. Call them on the phone and be polite. Think through your questions ahead of time and most will be pretty nice to you.

I am located in Cleveland, Ohio.

What is your audio background? Do you have a mechanical inclination? These are two skills that have been invaluable to me personally. If you don't have an audio background, you could spend a lot of time reading and learning that before you would have to worry about lathe specifics. That info is readily available on the net.

This is a great place also. I suggest you read almost every post here as a starting point. You may not understand all that is said, but it will expose you to the language of the craft.

If this is going to be a hobby, I would take opcode's advice and look for something on the cheaper end first, the principles will carry over to a pro set-up if you choose to make that move.

[lightschuh]

I do not have much (if any really) audio background since i have limited sources near by. so, thanks for the advice on reading all of the posts here, i just didn't know how to begin. are there any recommendations for specific web sites other than this one?

[blacknwhite]

i just didn't know how to begin. are there any recommendations for specific web sites other than this one?

Yes: the book by Oliver Read, "The Recording and Reproduction of Sound" (1952, second edition)



Read the parts of this $20 book related to disc recording (which is, Most of it): This is the perfect gentle introduction to all the basics you need to know about record cutting and pressing, which will provide all the fundamental concepts you'll need to build upon: After this book, you should pretty much be able to understand most or all the info on the forum here, and what pro mastering guys can tell you: (note, this only covers mono recordings, not stereo, but the stereo part is easy to pick up later)

Used copies on Amazon starting at $20:
http://www.amazon.com/recording-reproduction-sound-reference-professional/dp/B0007E3II0/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1287090488&sr=1-4

It includes basic disc cutting & pressing concepts, and instructions (as of 1952 - and the basic concepts haven't changed that much) on how to operate a Presto- or Rek-o-kut-like lathe, technical specs on some of those lathes & heads, diagrams showing how to adjust groove depth & amplitude & avoid overcuts, etc.

Welcome to the forum,
- Bob

[piaptk]

The first thing you should do is spend a LOT of time reading through this forum. There is a LOT of information here, but it just takes some time to really sort through it.

If you want to get into cutting, the first thing I did was buy a small, refurbished suitcase cutter from west-techservices.com for $400. The quality of those things is pretty mediocre, but it got me a taste for cutting, and I upgraded a few months later to a Presto 6n, which in my opinion is the best semi-professional cutter to get because it seems like there were tons of them made and the parts are easily available.

If you don't have mechanical inclinations, I recommned buying one that is up and running and ready to go and buying it from someone that knows what they are doing on it. In my experience, about $1500 is a fair price for a good running 6n with cutter head and a couple of feedscrews. All you would need would be a power amplifier to drive the head.

I love talking shop, and if you want to shoot me an email through my website or as a PM here, I'll give you my phone number and can answer your basic questions to give you some background to understand some of the things you will read on here. I'm certainly not the most knowledgeable person here, but I was exactly where you are 3 years ago, have made a lot of costly mistakes, and can definitely get you started without talking too far over your head.

[concretecowboy71]

Tape Op Magazine. Subscribe today! It is free and has great articles about many facets of recording and audio in general.

The main principles of recording remain the same no matter what the format. Buy a cheap 4-track recorder and learn basic stuff like signal flow, gain staging and the physics of audio and you have a great start.

[blacknwhite]

If you REALLY don't know anything about the record-making process, this WON'T teach you how to cut records, but at least will give you a "macro" view of the process. By the way, these days, there are different ways of making records; some are cut or embossed directly one-at-a-time for extremely short runs into hard plastic (or even picnic plates), but most are factory-pressed the "old fashioned pro" way in larger quantities - this vid overviews the "pro pressing" method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rEmHkumWXI


- Bob

[opcode66]

http://www.aes.org/publications/anthologies/

The first book listed is DISK RECORDING VOL.1: GROOVE GEOMETRY AND THE RECORDING PROCESS

Buy that. Read it several times. It really is very comprehensive...

[markrob]

Hi,

You can download the Oliver Read book as well as many other great titles at this web site:

http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm

Radiotron Designer's Handbook has some good sections on disc recording and reproduction and is a great all around reference.

Mark

[lightschuh]

so should i look into taking any sort of classes or should i just go about this by learning from you guys? I just want to know that if i do pursue this and put the money into it, i can get the most out of it (learning wise).

[piaptk]

I doubt you will find any classes just on record
cutting. But some audio engineering vlasses at the local college would be fun. I do second the tape op recommendation, though it rarely talks about record cutting. It's a great read and well worth the nothing you have to pay for it!

[lightschuh]

I did subscribe to that and will be enjoying it in november

[subkontrabob]

Is there some sort of course i could take or any classes someone could recommend to me for college courses?

Maths + physics!!! Although it sounds boring, that stuff will help you! I didn't pay as much attention in math class, don't make the same mistake! It makes things a lot easier if you learn things once and don't have to do a lot of catchup later.... Trigonometry, calculus...... when applied to audio it starts to make sense like it never did in school.....

A good (but expensive) book that helps to bridge the gap between actual music and mathematics:

http://www.musimathics.com/

The best text I've read on the subject! Very comprehensive! Worth every cent. Buy it!!

http://www.aes.org/publications/anthologies/

The first book listed is DISK RECORDING VOL.1: GROOVE GEOMETRY AND THE RECORDING PROCESS

Buy that. Read it several times. It really is very comprehensive...

I don't know if the anthology is the right place to start for Joshua if he doesn't have much audio/cutting knowledge to begin with - it will confuse more than help. I don't think it's comprehensive for a beginner - after all that stuff is written for engineers.

Once you know the jargon and have a solid understanding of what happens in the cutting process it might be useful.

On the other hand, if you have the extra cash, just buy both volumes (there are two) and put them on the shelf for the future - you never know when they go out of print.

A much better starter would be Robert K. Morrisons book "Disk recording 1930 - 1960"! It has lots of pictures, and a great account of the history of disk recording in California.

http://www.highlandlab.com/diskrecording.htm


I second markrobs post, tubebooks.org has a lot of good books!


Other free stuff to download in this forum:

https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1962&mforum=lathetrolls

https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1783&mforum=lathetrolls

https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1042&mforum=lathetrolls


http://www.west-techservices.com/disc.htm



Furthermore, you can get 6 ebooks about electronics at:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/

they're great, and best of all, free!


hope this helps....

cheers,

Rob

[markrob]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the link to the musimathics site. I think I'l have to pick that up. A less costly, but great alternative to this is:

Fundamentals of Musical Acoustics by Arthur H. Benade

http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Musical-Acoustics-Second-Revised/dp/048626484X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1287235472&sr=1-1

This was a classic text and is now re-printed as a Dover edition. $17 from amazon. It does not cover disc recording, but it will give you a good background on acoustics.

Mark