Vinyl Recorder - few tips needed (Solved, thanks!)

[vpc]

Hi everyone,

Please excuse my newbility and sorry if I do anything wrong with this post - wasn't intentional..

Speaking to the point - I would be grateful if one could tell me something about the durability of the records made with the above machine. Want to start dubplating for my friends and myself..

Would be also happy to know your thoughts re the dubplating idea - probably some other machines that are of a better level..

Thanks in advance and the very best wishes from snowy Moscow,
Val

Hi Val,

I use the VR since 2002, it's a great machine, I cut 200 records/month and no complaints about quality and durability yet, so...

I need to buy a second machine, and you know what ? I'll buy a VR !

Some people don't like Souri because he is a kind of rude guy, that's true, but the fact is that he don't like arrogant people, that's all.

You have the choice between the regular and the feedback version, choose the regular one if you like the "old school" vinyl sound or the feedback version if you want a linear "cd like" sound.

The only extension you really need is the vinyl optimizer.

Cheers

Cyril

[opcode66]

I will digitize the cut I got from souri and post a clip of it and the original wave to demonstrate the flutter issue I keep refering to. Maybe it isn't a problem for some. It is for me... It is significant however.

[vpc]

Yes, it's possible to have the flutter, but it's also possible to have no flutter. It depends on many variables (heating, Temperature of the blanks,...)

[fraggle]

I also think it really depends on the cutter (experience).
Montanbano's cuts were really good but then i also heard the opposite or better i got a few demos's....
I'm over this souri discussion.
Look you cannot really argue with he doesn't like arrogant people that's a bit of a joke after what people including me experienced. sorry but...
anyway that's it for me..
cheers

[vpc]

Look you cannot really argue with he doesn't like arrogant people that's a bit of a joke after what people including me experienced. sorry but...
cheers

I mean arrogant people to the point of view of a 60+ year old man that lives in the middle of nowhere in the German countryside. Souri can seem to be coming from the jurasic era but he's not a bad guy, you just have to stick to the "rules" and you won't be eaten. He was always there even on Sundays to help me out with the machine, which may be not the case with "nicer" guys.

[cymbalism]

I've had many a conversation with souri and he is set in his ways, probably due to being burned by people trying to get distro when his vr first surfaced. He told me all about sending samples to people and never hearing back nor getting the samples returned so he was out however many dollars he sent out with not even a "yeah this is good" or "no this is horrid".

I'm sure eventually he may offer his pieces to other users but he has his ways he wants to run his business and you can't really knock he guy for it. Granted I wish he would budge just a tad and sell to select people who don't use his machine some of his products but only time will tell.

[opcode66]

Let's not make this personal. I've learned to respect Souri over time. Even though I didn't like him much at first. He is who he is and that is not germaine to the topic at hand.

When I have some time this week I'll post three audio clips: original audio, VR cut audio, and my cut of the same piece on my VMS70. You will hear the difference and the flutter.

The disc was cut by Souri himself. I'm not sure who could be a better user of that system than the man himself. So, if flutter could have been avoided on a basic system certainly Sour could have accomplished that right?

[MEGAMIKE]

thats all kool i think it all evens itself out ,we get wow and flutter and you get to cut 20 records with one diamond ..

also you never mention that you would get wow and flutter on a kingston,only VR .

just remember that people are running small biz here with VR and negative feedback may cause some to want to speak back especally when you do not own a VR...

we are all in the same boat trying to convince the youth of this planet that digital compression of audio files for loud sound system play back is NOT ON........................

[opcode66]

I don't think I've been giving negative feedback. Especially since I've said you can resolve the flutter issue with add-ons. And, if I'm not mistaken this thread is about VR, not Vinylium Kingston Dubplate cutter.

I can get more than 20 cuts from a Vinylium diamond. And, people seem to be happy with the diamonds from TheShank. So, Souri is not the only source of good cutting diamonds.

Finally, I don't have to own a VR to know about them, to have seen one running live, or to have cuts made by them that I've analyzed closely.

By not means am I saying don't buy a VR.

[mossboss]

Souri has done a good service for the cutting game just like P King in NZ they are both unique
And by the way what makes all these people think that higher spec systems are all perfect
There was never much choice in pro systems in days gone past let alone today
So in my view let the man be and deal with what is available
On another point
A VMS system that I happen to own that was supplied to RCA in 1975 new from Neumann in Germany
It costed them $478,000 US dollars
Today that would translate to quite a few MILLION
Sure it had very high specs and no wow or flutter
So whoever wants an equivalent system today can certainly have it
All they need is a very fat bank account
Any competent electro mechanical outfit out there would do it for them at somewhere near the half a million odd dollars
Simple
But at less cost than that! and what Souri its offering is extremely good value for money indeed
So to all of you out there on this VR Kingston Presto K whatever trip I have a simple msg
Guys try to keep things into perspective
Cheers

[6137818]

So sorry for not checking the thread I've started but i simply couldn't have foreseen that you,mates , are going to be THAT kind and sharing! Thank you so much for all your thoughts!!

Special thanks to you, Cyril! The first time i notice info on this "old school-CD" point. So i need a no-feedback thing)

Searching through the forum showed the controversy about Souri which makes me think he is just not an easy-going kind of guy which is not a disaster itself at all.. Just a special way to treat him is needed which is,back again, not a disaster if he sets the rules himself

[JayDC]

Don't sell your self short, in any scenario, any cutting machine/head..

Feedback heads have a higher dynamic range period. The feedback coils are error correction, they make sure the stylus cuts a more exact representation of the source material.. I would not say the non-feedback heads have "old school sound", i would say a they have more "amateur" sound. You can achieve the sound of less harsh dynamics and warmth, just don't process your source material with a ton of multi-band compression and limiting, and remove excessive shimmer using a desser..

The fact is a feedback cutting system will yield a higher quality result of the reproduction of the source material, then a non-feedback head could ever achieve.

I know this because i use a non-feedback head, and it is the limiting factor for how well i can cut a record at this moment of my life.

[vpc]

In the vinyl years the job of a vinyl mastering engineer was not to reproduce the exact sound of the mastertape but to enhance the listening experience. If you compare some mastertapes from the 70's / 80's with the vinyls, the vinyls often sounds better. They had in mind that the listener is a the center of the music scene (different stereo imaging than the mastertape, smoother mids, highs boost). The linearity was not always the rule.

The majors have forgotten the savoir-faire and that's why vinyls sounds so bad today even if the laquer is cut on a Neumann.

[JayDC]

i said of the source.. your talking about the actual music.. I was talking about the exact reproduction of the source, the line out of your mastering console.

With a non-feedback head you have a less accurate representation of the source material. Don't let your cutting head dictate and define your sound, that is what the mastering process is for.

I don't see the point of wasting all your money on plug-in's, software, hardware, vintage hardware, expensive amp's and the like, if the cutting head will never reproduce what your telling it to.

Don't sell yourself short, get the best equipment you can get if your going to get it, so you don't have to pay for it later..

[montalbano]

Hey all

I did fantastic cuts with the VR.

And it's a great training if you then update to the VMS ... everything looks easier! And it is. Of course with a Neumann you can explore a much wider range of opportunities, because the machine allows you to do that.

But with the VR you LEARN the basics of cutting.

So long live Souri!

I would like to see some VMS "Gods" cutting with the VR ... back to basics! WTF

[cymbalism]

i said of the source.. your talking about the actual music.. I was talking about the exact reproduction of the source, the line out of your mastering console.

With a non-feedback head you have a less accurate representation of the source material. Don't let your cutting head dictate and define your sound, that is what the mastering process is for.

I don't see the point of wasting all your money on plug-in's, software, hardware, vintage hardware, expensive amp's and the like, if the cutting head will never reproduce what your telling it to.

Don't sell yourself short, get the best equipment you can get if your going to get it, so you don't have to pay for it later..

I cut with non feedback grampians and eq the master prior to cutting and I think mine come out pretty good. In fact the other day I cut a mono version of a beatles song and compared it to the original press an mine blew it away. You'd be surprised what a good pair of monitors and a little patience on the eq work can do for your cuts.

[JayDC]

and what is he frequency range of your grampian head, vs lets say the VR feedback, sc-99, or an sx74..

[teas]

could someone please point out in a sentence or two what the feedback coil is doing in a cutterhead? Would be nice, since I like to understand the function of those. Are they just moving the opposite direction as the driving coil?

[JayDC]

From the Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound page 257:

The "feedback cutting head" was developed at Bell Telephone Laboratories in 1924: it canceled resonances in the cutting head by feeding back a signal from it to the recording amplifier.

[opcode66]

The feedback is negative or canceling. Unlike the feedback one gets from a guitar amplifier if you let the string vibrate and hold the body next to the amp. That is additive feedback.