Looking to Get Started

[JohnnyF]

Hello All,

I'm looking for a bit of help getting started with recording and getting a lathe. I've been doing quite a bit of research lately and have pretty much confused myself, so I'm hoping you all can help sort me out.

I'd like to get a lathe set up for cutting on the most durable substance I can (PVC?) for short run(s) productions of personal projects. Ideally, I'd like to get set up by August so the first thing I cut is my girlfriends almost complete record for her birthday. It would be a surprise and she'd be supper stoked.

I have about an $800-$1000 budget and have spent a bit of time looking at the units west tech has on their site. So far I'm into both the Wagner Nichols, Masco, and Meissner units. Since they all listed as refurbed I assume they are ready to cut. I was thinking, if I can, replacing the needle with sapphire or diamond.

Any thought on blanks would also be appreciated.


Thanks for any help.

[GrobbingThistle]

Sorry to say, but you're not going to be able to cut PVC with a diamond needle using any of the refurbished units on the West Tech site. Those all have crystal cutting heads which are comparatively low-fi and cut well below normal volume levels. A pro-sumer grade Presto (6N) or Rek O Kut (Challenger or Imperial) is what you want, although I doubt you'll find a fully functional model within your budget and still have the couple of hundred dollars left over to buy a diamond stylus. Have a good look around this website and you'll begin to get a pretty good idea what all is involved in getting started cutting.

To begin, you'll need:
- A decent, working lathe (most common are the Presto 6N or a Rek O Kut Challenger or Imperial). These can run anywhere from a couple hundred dollars if you're lucky to $2000 or so.

- A decent, working mono cutter head (Audax, Presto 1C or D, Grampian, etc). Prices vary, but I would set aside at least $250, unless the lathe you find comes with a usable one.

- A stylus (sapphire and ruby tipped from Apollo, Diamond from Lathe Trolls user "The Shank" or Vinylium). Cuttyling styli from Apollo are going to run you around $90 each. A diamond is significantly more, $300-400.

- An amplifier that will sufficiently drive your cutter head. The price of this depends on what you have lying around/have access to and how creative/lucky you are.

[JohnnyF]

...

Thanks for all the info. I guess I'll begin scouring craigslist and local shops for a Presto or Rek O Kut unit.

I didnt realize I needed an amp. Any suggestions on type / where to begin looking for one?

Thanks again.

[piaptk]

...

Thanks for all the info. I guess I'll begin scouring craigslist and local shops for a Presto or Rek O Kut unit.

I didnt realize I needed an amp. Any suggestions on type / where to begin looking for one?

Thanks again.

I doubt you are going to find any lathes on either craigslist or in local shops. I've been a semi-pro thrift store/pawn shop reseller for 15 years and in all that time, the only lathe I've ever seen was a gutted Meissner at a junk store. Ebay or this forum are the best places to find them.

I would echo the recommendation of a 6n. I've had a bunch of them over the last few years and love them.

As far as amp, that is the easy part. A standard high powered stereo amp will work decently, depending on the ohmage of your cutting head. If it is 500 ohms, you will need to get an older amp with a 500 ohm tap or have Gib at West Tech rewind it to 8 or 15 ohms for you.

[gauze]

I figured I have similar noob questions so why start a new thread ...

I just wanted to mess around and cut some lofi punk to picnic plates or something can these low priced mono home recording units with crystal heads cut into something that hard?
is this more a function of weight of "tracking" and stylus hardness?

I thought a lot of these old home recorders didn't have a feed system so you'd use a disk with an empty groove in it already, is this right? If so do you have to rig something to feed the head if it's even possible to cut into a plate with one of these things?

also how are the results of cutting a disk at 78rpm with speed of music adjusted so it'd playback at 45rpm at correct speed? I'd think this could introduce some fluctuation in pitch (warble)

if there is an FAQ of this kind of (low end) stuff please link me I have not run across anything like that.

[opcode66]

Some terminology:

Cutterhead - The device that translates audio signals to disk employing some sort of fixed magnet and electromagnetic coil.

Cutting Sylus - The sharpened object used to cut (or emboss depending on how you orient it) an audio disc.

Flutter - Inconsistent playback of audio due to an inconsistent platter rotational speed. The program material will sound like it is slowing down and speeding up slightly. BPM will float instead of staying consistent.

The FAQ is this site itself... Plenty of information on here. You just have to dig for it. There is a fantastic book, but it seems to be out of print at the moment...

The stylus that you use to cut plastic would be made from a Diamond. The kind you use to cut softer lacquers is made from Sapphire.

I'm not aware of any cutting lathe that used discs with preformed grooves. Possibly that is some sort of dictaphone??? Not an expert on the lower end dictation equipment.

All of the old lathes had a mechanism to move the cutterhead across the diameter of the disc. Some had a gear system under the platter, so it looks like there is no driving parts, but they are just hidden.

Others were a lot more obvious with an overhead mechanism containing a feedscrew, a knife edge, and some sort of mount for a cutterhead. This would go over the platter and hook on to the center pin. The rotating platter would cause the feedscrew to turn and that would induce movement of the cutterhead across the disc.

Flutter comes from a platter drive motor that does not have sufficient torque. A lot of lathes have this problem. Especially the modern ones that use a regular Turntable as the platter drive motor. Cutting material at 78 for playback at 45 is totally doable. Flutter would only be introduced if your platter motor doesn't have enough torque to keep a steady speed while downward pressure is exerted by the cutterhead.

[emorritt]

I'm not aware of any cutting lathe that used discs with preformed grooves. Possibly that is some sort of dictaphone??? Not an expert on the lower end dictation equipment.

There were a couple of toy recorders (Andy Gard, etc.) that used a pre-grooved tracking disc to move a very basic recorder across the surface of a lacquer blank on a standard portable phonograph of the day (50's - 60's). The Victor "RE" series Electrola phonographs would emboss/indent/displace/move around - whatever you want to call it - to make a recording on a pressed, pre-grooved blank that was made out of an early vinyl compound. They used a very large, blunt stylus for both recording and playback, with a weight that was placed on top of the pickup when recording. If you happen to come across any of these records (they have a label similar to the 20's Victor scroll label but they read 'Victor Home Recording'), you need either one of the original styluses or at least a 4 mil stylus to come close to getting a reproduction from one of them.

[gauze]

hm maybe I have just been looking at the wrong ebay listings that seem to show stuff being sold as blanks that definitely have grooves cut in them. (ie not blanks at all).

[maniman]

Hi John , I'm Mani from Barcelona , I'm one of the most newbie cutter here , it's difficult start with that budget , take in care your situation I recommend :

- Talk here with some Trolls , someone can cut this record 4 your girl here , and have it ready for that date.

-With that budget get an Presto 6N overhead and a decent cutterhead (Presto 1C , 4 xmple ) , ask here , the guys will helps you to fit that overhead on a strong turntable and with a bit of work to motorize the carriage advance.

If the budget is limited like this you need a lucky strike to get a complete lathe (or something similar that cut records , heheheh ) , the fact is that you can get the lathe step by step , take the best pieces you will see in the ebay.

I started 6 month ago (aprox) with my presto , Mike (piaptk) sells me a 6N overhead , other guy from Australia sells me a 1C cutterhead , petermontg sells me a feedscrew , jacques from artifex here in Barcelona sells me 2 used stylus , and talks me about a Lenco that he must search into him junk.

That is something like ->

249 $ Overhead
67 $ 1C
50 $ Feedscrew
50 $ 2 x Used Stylus

and 4 example 300 $ for the turntable (thats is only an example , isnt real , the other are real)

Talk with the people Is the best thing you can do.

YOU CAN DO WITH THAT BUDGET ?

Yes probably you can do it (the amp , the filter , fuses and all that are other history , more related with your knowledge and disposable free time , than a monetary problem )

THAT WILL BE FAST ?

Probably not , you need your time to get the pieces from around the world , but is the test , CAN BE DO IT , but need constancy , search in ebay every day , and look the Classified & tip offs every day too. (and more important , talk with the Trolls , someone can give you a surprise)

[dietrich10]

solution is come take the hour drive north and pickup my Rekocut system. just needs some TLC! its all there..and on wheels

[maniman]

Hey John man , listen what dietrich says !!!!

[piaptk]

solution is come take the hour drive north and pickup my Rekocut system. just needs some TLC! its all there..and on wheels

That would probably be a good set up, John... Just make sure that you (or someone you know) is good with making adjustments, fixing stuff, etc for whatever is wrong with it. I spent a ton of money buying things that needed work and got really frustrated because I'm not a technical guy. Luckily, Kris D and other dudes on here help me out a lot with repairs.