Magic fluids for home cutters (DuoTone)

[charlief64]

Way back in the day (late 1940's through the 50's) a company called DuoTone offered bottles of liquids made for home acetate record cutting. One was a pre recording solution that was supposed to lubricate the disc for a quieter cut. The other was a "hardener" that supposedly hardened the disc so you could get more playbacks with less wear. Does anyone know what the hardener was and if it even worked?
charlie

[Steve E.]

No idea, but wow. Very interesting.

[charlief64]

No idea, but wow. Very interesting.

I can't even find a reference to it on the net. I bought a Phonocord console 3 years ago and there was a full bottle of the pre cutting lubricant in it. The back label of the bottle had an ad with something like "Be sure to use DuoTone recording hardener to make your recordings last longer". This intrigued me but I've hit nothing but dead ends trying to research it. If it really worked, it's something a lot of us might use. The search goes on ........
charlie

[Techie]

Here is a reference I found a while ago. About midway down the page, it states to "be sure to apply the preservative solution immediately after recording if long record life is desired".

http://www.shellac.org/nri/nri08.html

[Techie]

Here's another reference from the same website. Last sentence of first section:

http://www.shellac.org/nri/nri07.html

[Prestofan]

I remember using a pre-recording fluid back then. It was a product made by GC (General Cement) I am quite sure whatever the formula it would not be available today. It did not increase the quality of the recording, but it did make a nice shiny groove and thread.

GC did not make a hardening solution, so I made the habit of not playing back the recording until the nest day, if possible. Early recording information of the day made reference to it but I never found a solution made by anyone else. Use of a hot stylus would of course overcome this.

Alan Graves

[Techie]

A hot stylus produces a harder groove surface and a longer lasting disc?

[dubcutter89]

A hot stylus produces a harder groove surface and a longer lasting disc?

No (ok, maybe a little - if possible I would always use hot styli on lacquer...)
But you will get nice shiny groove and chip

About lubricants and so:
There were a lot of different instant recording disk types before "lacquers" took over (for a good reason). Wax, Aluminium, and various "plastics" (or the like)...
In a lot of old papers/advertisment stuff I've read (most german) it says to use lubricant prior to cutting and hardener to make the disk playable, or all possible combinations of it... so you had to process the disk prior to playback.

From Presto Catalog (About Green Seals = Lacquers):
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...
10. Do not apply any oil or any other preperation to the disc before recording. There is no lubricant known which has any value for cutting Presto records.

11. ...Apply DISCLUBE immediatly to recordings that are to be played a number of times. Do NOT use DISCLUBE on instantaneous records that are to be used once, only, for broadcasting. DISCLUBE will increase surface noise on the first few playings. Therafter, a recording treated with DISCLUBE will last longer and play more quietly than one which has not been treated.

DO NOT USE DISCLUBE OR OIL ON MASTER AS NEITHER IS NECESSARY AND THEY MAY INTERFERE WITH PROCESSING!
-------------------------------------------------------------------

You may can try to play your recors wet - but there are a lot of different opinions on that topic...

Lukas

[Stevie342000]

If my memory serves me right there was a BBC research paper on noise on blanks which is the purpose here. If I remember rightly they did a batch test with various treatments and found that it made no difference.

This was prior to heated stylus and the research was done in either the 1930s or 1940s probably the latter. They found the results were more of a result of the initial quality of the lacquer not the treatment applied. Other issues included playback weight which was something like 4 - 6 oz (120 - 180g) which was a greater issue.

They were looking at disc wear and the noise in playback. I have seen the adds I think at one point Presto had a fluid as well, it may be in one of their catalogues or in an advertisement. I have seen the mention of a lubricating fluid and a hardening fluid in old US magazine adverts.

I can not remember if the BBC used it in there experiment or not you would need to find the Research paper, try the reference section, that is where I think I put a link or two for the BBC Papers.