VR stylus angle VS cutterhead angle

[sat159p1]

I always thought that keeping right stylus angle makes more sense than keeping cutterhead completely pararell to the record and leave stylus "as is". I want to know what do you think about that? I cannot set cutterhead completely pararell and stylus completely 90 degree to disc. Speaking of VR to be precise.

Stylus angle is dependent on how it's long. If it's resharpened, it becomes shorter and the angle raises. The question is should I keep my stylus angle close to 90 degree and then cutterhead not pararell to the blank....? or pararell cutterhead and angled stylus? (well, I measured from a photo and sometimes this is more than 8 degree off, like two times more).

If the music is transferred to the stylus via vibrations, what is the purpose of pararrell-to-the-blank cutterhead? I cannot find that answer, even in BASIC DISC MASTERING book.


A.

[The Shank]

A.[/quote]

I cannot set cutterhead completely pararell and stylus completely 90 degree to disc. Speaking of VR to be precise.

Haha obviously.... there is an angle in the Souri's "torq tube"

Stylus angle is dependent on how it's long. If it's resharpened, it becomes shorter and the angle raises

Congrats...

This is why you have to setup the whole system (head + overhead) after each different stylus

should I keep my stylus angle close to 90 degree and then cutterhead not pararell to the blank

Good bye little stylus, you've been a courageous one.

Have you been to Souri for all those details? This is the basics...

[sat159p1]

I was asking about which one is better/worse, not asking you about anything else. To be clear, I cut everyday for few hours and my styluses last very long and sound is very good.

And sorry, but you are wrong. You cannot set VR cutterhead pararell to the blank and 90 degree-to-the-blank stylus if they come in different heights. There's no point between cuttrhead and stylus to change its angle. When you change angle of cutterhead (e.g. to be pararell to the blank), angle of stylus changes also and "that's the way it is". Talking to Souri is a mess, always. I mean, not helpful.

Now, is it clear?

[The Shank]

To be clear, I cut everyday for few hours and my styluses last very long and sound is very good.

No doubt about your sound quality...

And sorry, but you are wrong. You cannot set VR cutterhead pararell to the blank and 90 degree-to-the-blank stylus if they come in different heights.

So, I said the opposite?

[sat159p1]

can anybody help me with this thing?.. a bit?

[sat159p1]

Here's mine VR cutterhead and stylus set 90 degree to the disc. Please take a look athe the cutterhead. Its angled about 20 degree from flat. So, better results with forward-cutting stylus or flat-to-the-disc cutterhead?

Anyway, why cutterhead must be pararell to disc?

PS sorry for the angled photo. on my phone/comp. looks right, so I dont know how it was rotated here...

[EpicenterBryan]

From what I have seen about Souri's head, the body should be parallel to the record surface, which gives a 15 degree "snow plow" angle as shown below:

143339.jpg

Bryan

[sat159p1]

Bryan. Yes. It's like 15 degrees here too, but I think cutting it "forward angle" will use the stylus more, right? I am able to do around 100+ hours on one.

What's the mystery about the cutterhead flat to the surface? Still don't know why.

[Gridlock]

Call Mr. Plow, that's my name. That name again is Mr. Plow.

You guys are insane. Why snow plow?

[sat159p1]

Gridlock - that was my question. "snow plow" or flat cutterhad-to-disc angle. Which is worse and why?

[sat159p1]

…and again, why cutterhead must be flat-to-the-disc? Anyone can explain it? Does the frequency response changes then?

[mikale]

hello all,


Did anyone ever verify VR stylus alignment angle?

I'm 6 months cutting and running into a wall with higher frequencies not translating so well.

Thanks

mikale

[Dub Bull]

Do you measure its protrusion in mm (w/ an inspection mic) and compensate each time the diamond stylus is recut so that it sticks out just as much as specified by Souri?

According to Nygaard, the way a conventional corundum disk-cutting stylus (with burnishing facets of 3 µ for stereo and 1,5 µ, for CD-4) is held within the cutting head, the ideal geometrical orientation of the cutting head is the one which makes the jewel tip length orthogonal to the lacquer plane. However the saddle must pivot the cutting head vertically at an effective 20 º off the orthogonal (for best handshake with the groove-scanning capability of the generic pickup stylus cantilever). It's basically, water-skiing - slalom. Using an 'obliquely mounted collect' within the cutting head, the head moves down and back at the same time, while keeping the stylus 'vertical.'

Interestingly, the geometric vertical cutting angle (i.e., the one you 'give') needs to be somewhat greater than 20 º (for modern standard) to compensate for inherent losses (in the one you 'get')... According to Nygaard, and seen in the field, the Ortofon cutting head mounts in its saddle so that it pivots vertically at 30 º, and the Westrex, 35 º, (off of 90 º w/r to the workpiece)...

The losses are momentary deflection of the stylus collet and its attachment to the drive system (torque tube or rocking bridge (~ 5 º)) and the lacquer's elastic memory causing topological spring-back (~ 5 º), which brings the 30 º down to ~ 20 º VCA



- Father José
.

[sat159p1]

Thanks for that. Do you have any pics of that setup working?

[Dub Bull]

Here's a picture of an Ortofon cutting head mounted in a Neumann lift/drop. The adaptor block on the back of the cutter provides the desired angle of the dangle once it's attached to the saddle:



Here's the Corinth (also posted, elsewhere, on this site):




The Westrex, Neumann, and Corinth (above), - type cutters have more of a horizontal build, so, they don't look as if they're pointing down as much as the Ortofon type, although they do swing (down) with the necessary angle, since their pivot point is further back from the front of the cutter.

Since the Ortofon is more of a vertical build, its vertical cutting angle is clearer on camera. In both cases, the cutting stylus has a rake angle that is upright when the geometric vertical cutting angle of the cutting head = (20 degrees + the necessary offset to compensate for the aforementioned losses - which are partially dependent upon the stylus-holding design).



- Father José

[sat159p1]

thanks for that, it was really helpful, so, in conclusion - when cutterhead is flat to the discs, and styylus has like 20* angle - this is allright?

[TheCrates]

This thread is totally confusing to me, and i see you asked the angle/head question on different threads. May i can help if you writing in german.

Was ist denn dein Problem?

[sat159p1]

The problem is - the "flat cutterhead" is not explained anywhere. Souri's T350 has an angle build to cutterhead, so when you set it pararell, stylus is always at plow angle, deafinitely more than max 8%.
So I try to understand what is better - high low angle of diamond and flat-to-disc cutterhead - and in this case stylus gets more abuse.... or non-pararell cutterhead, and 0-8% angle of stylus for better transcription and lifespan. Just that

[Dub Bull]

Normally, the cutting stylus rake angle will be only 2 - 5 degrees from perpendicular to the lacquer (jawohl, ever-so slightly plowing, rather than stroking) when the effective vertical cutting angle (VCA) is 20 degrees. {Nygaard says to cut with the stylus perpendicular to the workpiece without naming the exact degree of SRA.}

However, the geometrical vertical cutting angle (which is the amount of angle needed for the downforce vector to equal 20 degrees after the inherent losses are introduced by the stylus holder and the lacquer's own 'spring back') should be 30 to 35 degrees, depending on the model of cutting head being used. But you can't put a Neumann in an Ortofon saddle without switching to an appropriate (dis-)connect block, so, the manufacturer should provide you with all necessary castings to achieve this without you even trying...

Not by accident, when you align the cartridge of your tonearm, you set the vertical tracking angle (VTA) so that the pickup stylus rake angle is ~ 92 degrees. This is so that you match the cut when playing it back.


https://www.analogplanet.com/images/512MFVTA_article.pdf




- Father José

[sat159p1]

So, it means that on T560 flat-to-disc cutterhead and about 20% plow angle of the stylus is better for pvc cutting than not-flat to disc cutterhead and 0% angled stylus?