Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

This is where record cutters raise questions about cutting, and trade wisdom and experiment results. We love Scully, Neumann, Presto, & Rek-O-Kut lathes and Wilcox-Gay Recordios (among others). We are excited by the various modern pro and semi-pro systems, too, in production and development. We use strange, extinct disc-based dictation machines. And other stuff, too.

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diamone
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50764Unread post diamone
Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:12 pm

platesrecords wrote:Can anyone give advice on where / how they obtained the capital to invest in a cutting lathe? We managed to borrow money and use our own savings
Not having been able to do it myf just because of a lack of street team/publicity and promotions staff or access to people who do websites/social media - everybody I know that DID do it either did the same as you (mama and papa using college money for this instead when it became clear the boy either had the ability but no interest or vice versa) or got the boy in with their P&P teams at the father's or mother's company and try to raise capital that way.

The only other way is to do the same thing but with an art music humanities engineering or legacy format society. 8 tracks have their own, cassettes are coming back (Cassette Store Day) reel to reels are making a return to the market etc etc etc. So all these folks have money to burn like we said bec none of these is going to ever be completely commercial ever again - you're just going to be selling to a hopefully increasing niche market and as you say be able to pay your monthly nut off of it vs going and e.g. shining shoes at the mall or something.
platesrecords wrote:but now we are weighing up whether to spend another £10,000 to getting our lathe up to scratch for master/pro cutting.
This depends on where you are and what other competition you are looking at. Obviously in the middle of London where your competition is EMI and British Decca and Chelsea Music and Mayfair Sound Studios and yadadadada - then probably not.

But up there in the East and West Mids it would probably pay off in the long run if you can handle another couple years of feeding off biscuts and marmite with maybe some spotted dick for a treat here and there.

I say that because contrary to down in London who will use whatever is handy for the right price and have zero loyalty to local operations - people in the North Country are far more brand-loyal AND willing to pay a small or even medium sized premium in exchange for supporting some local boys so they can brag later.

This got its start in the Trent River Valley in the 50s and expanded to Merseyside a decade later so its no surprise that the practice would have hung on in the Greater Mids even after fading out farther South.
platesrecords wrote:If people can share insight on their investments/how they weighed up if it's worth it/any feedback on the reality of the decision would be really helpful!
Like I said - the farther you are from the big city with less competition the more chance you have of having a successful go at it.
platesrecords wrote:Also, if you did invest - how long did it take to break even? I have an idea for myself but interested to hear the experience of others
And like I also said - you have to be very tolerant of the skinny life for a good couple three years or so.

While £10K is not that easy to come by up North where everybody else is struggling the same as you compared to being able to get it down in the city - that's why I said check out all those other avenues - and make sure you have or can create or draft some kind of P&P team to be able to get the word out.

You will find that once you do - and once slightly higher-profile clients also from the East and West Mids as well as the rest of the North Country who are themselves loath to go tolerate the city - or mailing off or doing FTP to cutting engineers they will never meet and who might not have any kind of knowledge on how their particular genre is supposed to sound - says to me it's totally going to be worth it in the long run.
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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jesusfwrl
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50776Unread post jesusfwrl
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:17 am

I just went on the dole for a while, like 12 years, and I saved me money up by only eating biscuits! Cor blimey, these was roogh times! But I saved up a few quid and went and got meself a disk mastering lathe!

I was the only lad in the entire council estate ever got me mits on one of those, all me mates was saying ee by gum when they seen it! We was cutting Gracie Fields, Tony Osborne, and Rita Williams tunes and I was right chuffed with meself!

Now I can finally afford to sprinkle some Henderson's Relish over me biscuits when I'm peckish!
~~~ Precision Mechanical Engineering, Analog Disk Mastering ~~~
Agnew Analog Reference Instruments: http://www.agnewanalog.com

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platesrecords
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50777Unread post platesrecords
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:51 am

Thank you so much @Diamone - lots of really helpful and detailed info there! Really appreciate it

Would you mind if I sent you a private message to ask a couple more questions?

Thanks again for your advice

Nick

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handcut
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50778Unread post handcut
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:35 am

jesusfwrl wrote:I just went on the dole for a while, like 12 years, and I saved me money up by only eating biscuits! Cor blimey, these was roogh times! But I saved up a few quid and went and got meself a disk mastering lathe!

I was the only lad in the entire council estate ever got me mits on one of those, all me mates was saying ee by gum when they seen it! We was cutting Gracie Fields, Tony Osborne, and Rita Williams tunes and I was right chuffed with meself!

Now I can finally afford to sprinkle some Henderson's Relish over me biscuits when I'm peckish!
Genuine LOL.

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platesrecords
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50779Unread post platesrecords
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:47 am

@handcut

Also lol'd...then cried myself to sleep

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soeffingodly
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50781Unread post soeffingodly
Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:40 am

I'm investing my time and money in cutting for me. Period. I love records. I love DJ'ing. I love music. If I can recoup some of my expensive hobby cash monies, by all means I'd be than happy to do so. However, I am not planning on that even remotely happening. Bonus if it does though.
"I wasn't lying. Things I said later seemed untrue."

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platesrecords
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50782Unread post platesrecords
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:15 am

soeffingodly wrote:I'm investing my time and money in cutting for me. Period. I love records. I love DJ'ing. I love music. If I can recoup some of my expensive hobby cash monies, by all means I'd be than happy to do so. However, I am not planning on that even remotely happening. Bonus if it does though.
Good to hear. Same attitude personally - and that's a good reason to start the journey! I'm wondering about the business stuff specifically because there is very little info about the investment/sustainability of cutting acetates from newcomers and for the old/legendary studios it's hard to contextualise for people starting out today. I already run a poorly paid record shop business and am wondering about my future in being able to pay for all these biscuits people keep claiming they can afford to live off! :lol:

Thanks for your input guys, good to hear people's experience and advice

Nick

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platesrecords
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50787Unread post platesrecords
Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:37 am

piaptk wrote:If you run a record shop, at least you have time while people aren't checking out to play with it, and it is usually a good way to bring people in and have them talk about your shop around time once you learn what you are doing. So, you can look at it that way. Do runs while you are working.
Yeah true - the concept of a record shop and cutting studio together makes total sense to me...and was always 'the vision' BUT the collective rent for two rooms is just too much to become profitable [at least it is here]

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diamone
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50792Unread post diamone
Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:43 am

So do it in the back by the bathroom the same as Capitol Records was started three feet from the bathroom at Wallich's Music City on Sunset and Vine in Hollywood back in 1942.
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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diamone
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Re: Making money / Supporting yourself cutting records?

Post: # 50829Unread post diamone
Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:36 am

platesreccords wrote: Do you cut for yourself primarily or do you try and do as much commercial work as you can?
I'd say pretty much I end up cutting for myself.

This old radio station double-turntable pivot-cutting-arm Presto only has 110 LPI pitch only has 78 RPM only has mono and has no ability to cut lead in or lead out grooves. Besides that it cuts inside out only on the left platter and outside in only on the right platter and was designed to be in a sound truck for on location recording before tape was invented.

For those of you who don't know - that was to match the fidelity between sides of a long program. You'd cut inside out on the odd sides and outside in on the even sides because the difference in fidelity between the edge of the disc and the center was huge.

Besides that, since the maximum time was around 5 minutes and you needed a little bit for crossover in case a number ran long, producers split their show up into segments that were roughly that long so there's be time to cut the crossover before switching sides.

When you find these old sides and you transfer them to digital, editing between sides halfway through the crossover (the end of one side is the same as the beginning of the next side so you don't lose any) most of the time the listener can't tell except for the once-around swish endemic to the format is different.

To counteract that - some early engineers would do test cuts on the edges to see where the swish was and then rotate the new disc on the other platter so the swishes would match.

So besides that there's not really a big call for ``naked'' records.

Although a couple guys wanted me to cut some reproduction acoustic Victrola records and some of the 7 inch Columbia Playtime childrens records from the 30s with the tan label - and some reproduction Little Golden Records from the 40s - most of those don't have lead-in or lead-out grooves - and then other guys paid me to haul it to their show so they could cut live to vinyl (outside in on the odd sides and inside out on the even sides).

One kid even made me teach him the limitations of the format AND how to program his show to take the best advantage of it (no loud or bassy segments in the first halves of inside out sides or the last halves of outside in sides) and to stick to 5-minute sides in case there's runout - you get about 30 seconds to wind up the side before you run out of space etc.

Also the aforementioned multitrack doll sides where there's a number of tracks interleaved with each other to the point where depending on where the stylus lands around the circumference of the disc depends on what message you hear - and those CAN'T have lead in or lead out grooves because they have to be the same pitch all across the disc.

It was fun.
2 Kinds of Men/Records: Low Noise & Wide Range. LN is mod. fidelity, cheap, & easy. WR is High Fidelity & Abrasive to its' Environment. Remember that when you encounter a Grumpy Engineer. (:-D)

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