Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Movie Lathe

[timinbovey]

New movie "Ma Rainey's Black Bottom" is a new movie out on Netflix. I won't get into the story etc. but I wonder about historical accuracy. Now, I know movies can't be perfect but for an opening scene, and an image/clip that is used as a main identifier of the movie, it's bugging me.

The movie is set in a "small Chicago recording studio in 1927" A studio scene (used in trailers and promos as well) shows a mechanical geared lathe being wound up, and then goes to the cliche' shot of the cutting head/stylus landing on the LACQUER BLANK to start the recording.
Not in 1927, right? My history knowledge of recording tells me they would have been cutting to wax in 1927. Lacquer came along in 1934-35 as state of the art, and probably wouldn't have been in use in a smalltime studio right at it's introduction anyway. But certainly not in 1927.

And the wax lathe would not have had the suction tube either.

Haven't seen the movie yet, but ya'll know Ma is known as the "Mother of the Blues" and the story, it seems, takes place while recording one song. Looks to be a good movie. But I've already got issues with historical accuracy. LOL. These sort of things bug me.
I think I may have successfully attached an image screenshot from the trailer showing the cutter on the blank.

mamovielathe.png

Tim in Bovey

[Soulbear]

Hi Tim
timinbovey wrote:-
"New movie "Ma Rainey's Black Bottom" is a new movie out on Netflix. I won't get into the story etc. but I wonder about historical accuracy. Now, I know movies can't be perfect but for an opening scene, and an image/clip that is used as a main identifier of the movie, it's bugging me."
Rightly so!!

"A studio scene (used in trailers and promos as well) shows a mechanical geared lathe being wound up, and then goes to the cliche' shot of the cutting head/stylus landing on the LACQUER BLANK to start the recording.
Not in 1927, right?"
Correct

"Haven't seen the movie yet, but ya'll know Ma is known as the "Mother of the Blues" and the story, it seems, takes place while recording one song. Looks to be a good movie. But I've already got issues with historical accuracy. LOL. These sort of things bug me"
Quite rightly!

I am not a film critic by any means, and the object of this Biopic "Ms Gertrude "Ma" Rainey" while unknown to many, is certainly deserving both historically and artistically of such a movie. But it is such a shame the Moviemakers "Glossed Over" much of the career and life of Ms Rainey. There is a wealth of research and literature that has been published on this Lady, by the likes of Sandra lieb, Paul Oliver et al. Much of this literature appears to have been overlooked. A shame much of the movie was focused on the "Fictionalised" dynamics of the Musicians in her band, and so little time spent exploring the life and career of this "Pioneer" of great music. The portrayal as a "Boorish Character" rather than a pioneering, enterprenural and artistic performer was sadly all this movie offered. Like you said at the beginning of your post Tim, "Movies can't be Perfect" A wasted effort Sadly
Regards Soulbear

[symatic]

i saw the same scene, and I thought to myself that the Gravity driven motor looked to be the right time-period but the vacuum suction looked a bit advanced for when the scene was set... Didn't think of the lacquers but that also seems a little early also

[emidisc]

Good film thanks for the tip

[13yo]

@soulbear, I agree, you are not a movie critic, its a film adaptation of a play by August Wilson, not a biopic
excellent piece here about it, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/reimagining-august-wilsons-ma-raineys-black-bottom-on-the-small-screen?source=search_google_dsa_paid&gclid=CjwKCAiA_9r_BRBZEiwAHZ_v1yebMzi6b1x9b9zEqtRE5VLsWTil3_B0YJvAzEGaOWTMYB0pdzhDdRoCAlgQAvD_BwE
_
respectfully_M

[Soulbear]

Hi There 13yo,

@soulbear, I agree, you are not a movie critic, its a film adaptation of a play by August Wilson, not a biopic
excellent piece here about it, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/12/21/reimagining-august-wilsons-ma-raineys-black-bottom-on-the-small-screen?source=search_google_dsa_paid&gclid=CjwKCAiA_9r_BRBZEiwAHZ_v1yebMzi6b1x9b9zEqtRE5VLsWTil3_B0YJvAzEGaOWTMYB0pdzhDdRoCAlgQAvD_BwE
_
respectfully_M

I believe, we must agree, that I am most certainly not a "Film Critic" which I readily acknowledged and confessed to in my earlier post. However we must also agree to differ on other points made within my post. I understood "Biopic" to loosely mean "a film dramatizing the life of a particular person, typically a public or historical figure" and so I used the term "Biopic" in this context. If this movie is not a dramatisation of the the life of Ms Rainey, what else could it be (Loosely) catergorised as?? Action? Comedy? Drama? Fantasy? Horror? Mystery? Romance? Thriller? Historical? Sci-fi? Experimental? It is my understanding that these Genres are pretty much widely accepted as the Main Film/Movie Genres, however I am sure a "Bona Fide" Film Critic could probably list many more Genres and Sub-Genres. In this context I therefore suggest that I was correct in my initial assertion that this is indeed a "Biopic" But I also confess, I never took my University Degrees in Journalism, Film and Media Studies, or other similar types of esoteric Degree. Sadly, my Undergraduate and Postgraduate Studies only enlightened me in the mundane world of initially Electrical Engineering and latterly Business and Management.

However 13yo, thank you for the link to the article, nothwithstanding my limited education, I believe the the concluding Paragraphs of this very long, wordy, and descriptive article which you linked to, concurs with what I tried to express in a few short paragraphs here on the forum. To wit.
Soulbear wrote :-
"The portrayal as a "Boorish Character" rather than a pioneering, enterprenural and artistic performer was sadly all this movie offered. Like you said at the beginning of your post Tim, "Movies can't be Perfect" A wasted effort Sadly

The Newyorker.com magazine Wrote :-
"The literalization of the characters’ feelings in clichéd images like this makes “Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom” "dull to watch, which is a shame, because a director with more passion for the medium could have brought so much to this project"

Different words maybe, and a long and detailed description about the Plot of the Movie. but I believe this article ultimately expresses the same sentiments I expressed, albeit more succinctly !!!!

Regards Soulbear

[boryo]

I think this happens to a lot of movies. Producers care about the movie and not paying so so so much attention to the details. What do you think guys, how many people asked themselves "Hmmm, at that period the laquer disks weren't invented, what's happening here?"? Maybe 0.0000001% of all people that saw it... I think the same with 'Fast and furious' movie and sports car fanatics. There is always something to catch on. The funny thing is I was sleeping while my girlfriend watched the movie but when she saw the lathes she woke me up
R.I.P. Chadwick Boseman

Best,
Bob

[tragwag]

man I really liked this film! I got all giddy seeing the lathe as a centerpiece of the studio owner character.
chuckled heavily when he was tossing goofed up lacquers in the bin. I guess it made a more satisfying scene than having him re-shave a wax blank

[13yo]

as they kept blowing takes and trashing the lacquers I kept saying to myself,
thats $50, thats $100, thats $150, $200...

_M

[piaptk]

Yesterday, I got the straight dope from Nick Berg, the man who would know, because he is the pre-1930s expert and the one that provided the lathe for the movie. You may have also seen him in American Epic. He said that Vacuum was 100% used then, BUT it would have been wax discs, not lacquers. He said he pushed for wax discs, but the producers settled for lacquers because of the cost of wasting wax discs and some of the other elements of dealing with the wax. They said it lacquers were "close enough". Also Nick said that that version of the cutter head was actually first made about 2 years after the scene was set, but was almost identical to the one they would have used, and everything else was totally period.

[symatic]

niiiice shouts to nick for keeping the producers in check haha

[tragwag]

huge hand to Nick for supplying the lathe! honestly I just loved seeing it

[grooveguy]

Hey, Soulbear,

Good catches, all. A man after my own heart, finding time/place errors in films; I do love finding incorrect light switches and AC mains outlets. It's even possible to tell which "Hollywood" films are actually shot, on the cheaper, in Canada. I do believe, however, that suction was used even in the early days; wax masters were still engraved and produced 'chip,' or 'swarf' to you Brits. The early vacuum pumps were dual, push-pull bellows phased at 90° for continuous suction. I've only seen the trailer for the film, but the cutterhead I saw didn't resemble the early Western Electric, which was de-facto in the beginning. Oh, Brunswick rolled their own, but I've never seen one.

[EposLab]

huge hand to Nick for supplying the lathe! honestly I just loved seeing it

If you like the Presto 8DG lathe and other Presto equipment you must see the "Great Balls of Fire" movie! There are scences that you will really enjoy watch over and over!

[grooveguy]

I'll look this film up! Thanks, Tasos.