VR - chip pickup tube with Caruso

[tragwag]

I recently upgraded one of my T560's with the Caruso cutting head (thanks Flo!)
but I'm having trouble with the stock chip tube and positioning with the new head.
anyone have any solutions or thoughts on how to get the tube closer to the stylus?
maybe some pointers from other lathes?
It'd be great to not have to hire a machinist to custom make something

[trailerparkjesus]

is the caruso too low to fit the tube?

[tragwag]

basically yeah, I'm finding the closed back and bottom of the head is what keeps the tube from getting closer in.
the VR has the back and bottom wide open, aside from the two little tubes keeping the armature in place which I sneak the tube in between.

here's my two setups, it doesn't look drastically different but with the Caruso I can't get chip pickup hardly at all despite cutting good sounding grooves

caruso


T560 head

[MEGAMIKE]

hi
your tube should be flat horizontal (almost) and the head is leaning to far forward.

I've mounted many heads on the vr, bring the head down and horizontal and that brace looks like its blocking it.

megalove

[SueDenim]

I agree with Mike. Adjust the head height control and the separate suction tube height control at the back so that the tube is almost parallel with the platter.
If you need to, you could also see if you could bring the platter height up towards the head.

Failing all this, you will need a new tube with an s-bend in it, similar to those used for Neumann heads.
Best of luck!

[flozki]

-go a few milimeters more far away, just behind the screws.
- make the tube flatter.in front.
i make always myself. use 3mm tube with 0.5mm wall or 4mm tube with 0.5mm wall. flatten with a bench vise.
done in 10min.
important: to polish inside there should be perfect smooth inside on both ends.
use 600-1000 sanding paper in small stripes go iside the tube and polish as best as you can.

as i never had a VR , I cant really help for the ultimate setup
but i found a picture somewhere. i cant remember who sent it .. sorry if we use it here. but its the only one it shows the situation
maybe it comes somewhere from this forum.
for my taste the tube is still too close to the stylus. i think 20mm distance stylus to tube is totally ok.
but the tube is perfectly bent. it does not open up in the entry part like on your picture.

[img]www.flokason.ch/imgs/caruso_vinylrecorder_chip.jpeg[/img]

there is not a lot of space but i never had problems even when chip removal tube was just behind the head. (approx 30mm distance. )
i use a modded fishtank pump 90l/min or AEG ultrasilencer vacuum cleaner. both work perfect.

happy cutting. f.

[tragwag]

hrm, ok! lots to chew on here.
almost looks like the two screws at the back of the head are touching the tube in that last photo Flo?

to Mike and Sue's point:
I based my head angle off this pic, it's too much still?
I know the VR head should be parallel, but I took this pic to mean the Caruso should have a forward angle


I know the adapter is a bit wonky, did the best I could with no technical skills or tools.
If anyone sells an adapter or plans for one, I'd be a buyer

I'll try to make the tube parallel to the platter and go from there.

[MEGAMIKE]

I think I know the problem ..maybe..
As it appears that the head cannot go down any further(or the turntable is too low) I suggest to lift the head up make it horizontal so its flat to the plate then your turntable needs to come up about an inch or 2 higher so you need some little feet stilts to raise the turntable to meet with the head (at good adjustment level) then the final thing is to loosen the wing nuts on both sides and align your diamond with the spindle point.

and to Flo does your head need a forward tilt? in photo as tragwag suggests?

[Discomo]

I agree with Megamike.

But this may be impossible due to your motordrive? You can also first try to put the brass counterweight more to the back of the spindle. It will give more leverage when it’s not at the front and your head will come more perpendicular. Place it as far back as possible. Alternately, if this doesn’t make the head come up enough, you may think of adding more counterbalance weight.

When you do this, you might want to adjust the height of the head itself. You can do this at the part where I’ve put an arrow (see pic). Thus you can lower the head.
When you play a bit with counterbalance and height of the head it may solve your problem.

2BACE800-A5EE-4ECD-864D-7873B993D707.jpeg

[tragwag]

parallel chip tube and some resetting of the heights worked!
also happened that my clear plastic tube was clear of chip, but the copper tube had a little stuck in it, cleared that away and the positioning was much more forgiving.
I ended up with something similar to the pic that Flo posted, for reference.
thanks everyone!
I did order a thinner chip tube that I might try to get a little more play with the positioning over time, or slightly warped blanks.

I'm not sure there's a clear answer on one specific point, I know the VR head is meant to be parallel to the platter when touching the disc, but every pic of see of the Caruso it has a slight forward leaning angle. any consensus on that?

[SueDenim]

Great news! Glad we could help.

As for the cutting angle question... the stock VR head has a backwards biased cutting angle built into it (can't recall the exact degrees off the top of my head), so that's why it'll be approximately correct when the head is parallel to the blank. I still have to play around with the cutting angle everytime I change to a new stylus though, in order to get the quietest cuts.
Flo can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think the Caruso has any kind of offset angle, meaning that the stylus will be 90 degrees to blank when the head is parallel. So, yes, you need to manually introduce some back angle by tilting the head forward a few degrees.

[MEGAMIKE]

wow so they are opposite angles to each other

[MEGAMIKE]

so i was wrong then

[tragwag]

Great news! Glad we could help.

As for the cutting angle question... the stock VR head has a backwards biased cutting angle built into it (can't recall the exact degrees off the top of my head), so that's why it'll be approximately correct when the head is parallel to the blank. I still have to play around with the cutting angle everytime I change to a new stylus though, in order to get the quietest cuts.
Flo can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think the Caruso has any kind of offset angle, meaning that the stylus will be 90 degrees to blank when the head is parallel. So, yes, you need to manually introduce some back angle by tilting the head forward a few degrees.

that was my thought! only because of photos which I know can be taken from certain angles, but I had gotten that feeling

[Discomo]

https://www.vinylrecorder.com/angle.html

Schermafbeelding 2021-11-10 om 19.51.09.png