Made A Trip to Germany Last Week: Newbilt

[mossboss]

Well here it is back in 1956 rca's automatic book mould presses
One way of automating them as I said cumbersome around the 16 minute mark on
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=otR-MGsmCeE
Enjoy it and as you can see no robots only a few air cylinders. He he
Best

[Aussie0zborn]

That RCA auto press actually uses a two piece mould - not a book mould.

[mossboss]

All the moulds that we have ever seen are two piece
Hard to make a record otherwise
The automation principle applies regardless
Best

[Aussie0zborn]

All moulds are two pieces if you think about it. The difference is that a "book type" mould is hinged and you see this in Finebilt presses. A two piece mould is what you see in auto presses, this RCA auto press in the video, and other presses such as Hamilton, Fabel and Toolex manuals.

Anyone that's supposedly spent 47 years pressing records ought to know that.

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/what-spins-around-comes-around-as-vinyl-finds-the-old-groove-again-20130705-2phgy.html

This is the reason that RPA who have been in the business for 60 years, firstly as Hamilton Mfg and now as RPA, offer "two piece moulds" and "book moulds". Book moulds are not for moulding books, correct?

http://recordproducts.com/products/recordproducts

So, back to the topic....

The Newbilt press is what it is and it looks fine but I would think it's probably a waste of time automating a press with book moulds and I don't believe anybody has ever done it. The lame example of the RCA press certainly didn't do it. And again, that industrial robot in the pic does not make too much sense.

[untitledthe]

Well here it is back in 1956 rca's automatic book mould presses
One way of automating them as I said cumbersome around the 16 minute mark on
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=otR-MGsmCeE
Enjoy it and as you can see no robots only a few air cylinders. He he
Best

Great educational video, i like how they clearly handle galvanizing the several discs and with which metals.
Ill put this video up in the media topic if you dont mind.

[mossboss]

Galvanics are at the heart of record manufacture it is the most interesting aspect as well as the most satisfying process
According to literature available it seems that RCA persisted with these baths and methods plating copper than nickel than a flash chrome for far longer than other manufacturers who had switched over to nickel only
It seems that when the barret as against the watts bath come into existence around the mid fifties most went over to the new method doing away with copper even chrome, RCA was the last to switch over some years later
Once again the principle of it ain't broke don't fix it applies and rightfully so they had great success with in house methods they had developed
Interestingly during the second world war with the shortage of strategic metals such as chromium nickel as well as copper quite a lot of manufacturers went over to iron
I have never seen an iron stamper however it is mentioned in literature that this was the case, no steps of the process was ever disclosed and searches so far have not uncovered any it would be interesting to know how it was carried out
Best

[leo gonzalez]

nice. doesnt look bad.

was the extruder there? if so, was it working?

i think they have done great building a replica of the original.

as a press there is really not much to it. it looks that they have even copied the cylinder. i wonder if they used the same cup seal as the finebilts used. maybe they added a top seal to prevent excess oil to overflow?

i would defenetly advise to see this in full operation before buying. specially at the asking price...




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[leo gonzalez]

ok, a couple of things after looking at the pictures.

this looks like an original finebilt. the top plate looks exactly like the original cast molded top plate. the edges and and the post fitting holes are rounded just like the original.

the cylinder also looks like the original cast molded ones with the bottom bolt hinges that screw into the bottom plate.

from a design point, i think there is no need to make all these cast parts. all these can be made from solid steel planks..

also, another thing that throws me off the most is the other holes on the top plate. it is said that some of these later top plates made by finebilt have cracked by stress or when moving the press around.

if this is truly a new press, as a copy, seems close enough to the original.

as a new design.. just not the way a new press would be engineered ..


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[leo gonzalez]

So, from the pictures..

I dont know if those are 2 different presses on the photographs but it seems to me that these are 2 original finebilts.
Or these are presses made with some original Finebilt parts.

Also, the "Newbilt" faceplate looks to be big enough to hide the "Finebilt" impressed on the top plate...

There are too many issues here that should raise some suspicions about this project.
Maybe there are some things that haven't been disclosed about the project?

Too many questions here..

I would suggest to be very careful here.

Would be great if we could have the newbilt person to pitch in here publicly about this.

[Aussie0zborn]

Also, the "Newbilt" faceplate looks to be big enough to hide the "Finebilt" impressed on the top plate....

Good point. The Finebilt logo stands proud as does this nameplate - it even causes a drop shadow. What's behind the Newbilt name plate that causes it to stand proud and create the shadow???

[untitledthe]

Remarkable twist to the story..

[Aussie0zborn]

This is getting interesting. The Newbilt website says....

"We replaced the retraction springs on the press’ main cylinder with two pneumatically steered hydraulic cylinders to assure the necessary accuracy for fully automatic operation."

....but what I see in the first photo are two retraction springs in the side of the press, just like Finebilt and no "pneumatically steered hydraulic cylinders". Maybe this is the first version before they designed the hydraulic cylinders and they wanted prospective buyers to see how it was and why they needed to make it better?

What I see in the second photo is a press without retraction springs but I don't see a pneumatically steered hydraulic cylinder in their place, either. And there is no PLC in the second photo so maybe not the same press or maybe taken before they installed or removed the retraction springs.

I still hold the view that their Open Day was premature and a few things here don't make sense. I hope I'm wrong.

[Record Troll]

Hello record people. Let me introduce myself here. I am Dan from Record Products of America. I too attended the open house at NewBilt in Germany. (It rained every day I was in Germany). Any folks that attended the open house in Germany might know all the details of the NewBilt press system. If you did not attend or have any particular questions, please just send me a PM (or maybe you already have my phone number at RPA).

The NewBilt press product from the NewBilt Company in Germany is 100% new product. It consists of 1 or 2 brand new press machines, new valves, new extruder, new hydraulics, new controller(s), etc. The NewBilt press is fundamentally a clone of the old FineBilt press. The new BookMolds are supplied by RPA. This is not a new technology which needs to be qualified today. It is simply the old tried & proven design built with ALL MODERN NEW components including new Siemens controls.

Peace,
Dan at RPA
aka: Record Troll

[mossboss]

It be nice to know if any orders are placed as yet or at least if any of these new machines are up and running anywhere
Best

[untitledthe]

First pictures of Newbilt Machinery extruders;

Source Newbilt Homepage

[untitledthe]

Pictures of the Presses

(source Newbilt homepage)

[untitledthe]

Up close.

[mossboss]

Looking Good
Best

[untitledthe]

The pictures in the openingpost of this topic seem to included probably refurbish Finebilt machines just as a example. These presses we now see on the latest pictures looks like the first production run brand new machines. They look tight so far.

Nice to see pictures of the actual extruders. Its seems the biscuit comes your way via a small air cilinder, nice add on. Maybe nice to see a steam heated extruder in a far future? Looks a cheaper source to me, but probably no go area again.

On the pictures you can also see a glimpse of the hydrolic pump with a nice paint job. But also machines in the colours of Toolex i dont really recognize and a nice Finebilt in restoration.

[mossboss]

Yes nice progress so far
The extruder is extra heavy duty that's for sure
The puck is made in a an Alpha Toolex fashion Nice way of doing it Hard to tell if there is a cylinder under that pushes it out to the operator also the control system if it is timed or the puck size is controlled by sensors We will see it sooner or later I am sure
We have an in house modified Extromat 3 which does it nicely I may even post a video here one of these days
Steam heated extruders used to be very common as a choice, Lened Fabel and Alpha produced them
Not sure of Hamilton did it is possible I simply have not come across one so far
The Alpha looks like an AD12 with the extromat
It seems to have moved from the original pictures
It was in the corner
May be an optical illusion here for me
Good to see the progress, no doubt we will also see them running
Best