Do They Still Make Record Presses???? YES!!!

[Aussie0zborn]

Well... sort of.

Check this out... install a set of record moulds, get yourself an extruder and a trimmer and start presing your own records:



All we need to do now is find a manufacturer of disc cutting lathes!!

[MEGAMIKE]

how much

[PALOMINO]

how much

^^^yeah, what he said!

[mossboss]

how much

Are you interested in presses Let me know if so
Cheers

[mossboss]

how much

^^^yeah, what he said!

Yeah
Don't worry about how much they cost See how long you stay in buis if the gave them to you for nothing Have a look at the speed of this machines at the spec's provided
About 240 Seconds for a single cycle about 4 minutes and most likely you need to add another minute for removing and loading up for the next shot
That is a good way of going bust unless of course you are selling each record for $4-5 each from the plant as it does not seem that you be able to press any more than 15 20 at best per hour if you limit the stroke to absolute minimum required
Further they seem to quote a hydraulic ram size of 10" for a 100 tonne press and a size of 12" for the 150 tonne model
They must be indian tonnes as Alpha quotes 12" ram size for a 100 tonne press These are European tonnes or American tonnes
Pressure is the same for both 2850-3000 PSI or 200 KG/cm 2
You need 100 real tonne to press a record By the look of it you would be needing their 150 tonne model if you are brave enough to venture down that path
I thought that at a minute and a half cycle per record is about the max one should set the upper limit
Alpha quotes 40s for a 7" and 48s for a 12" but at steam pressure of 170 and cooling water at about 18 C Boilers at 100 psi are common 170 very rare and costly Steam pressure and cooling water temperature being the limiting factors for higher speeds Not press speed
I think I will give these slumdog machines very wide berth and leave them exactly where they are as there will be no millionaires out of these indian beuties Not in so far as record pressing is concerned anyway
Cheers

[markrob]

Hi All,

Does any body here have any experience with Emory Cook's Microfusion process. Acording to his patent US 3023459, the pressures are much lower since you start out with granulated PVC filling the mould. It seems like this process could be workable for low volume production. Any thoughts?

Mark

[Aussie0zborn]

Hi Mark,

All records for the last thirty years or more are made from granulated PVC. Prior to that they were made from vinyl "biscuits" - a pre-formed piece of vinyl measuring approximately 6" x 2" which was heated on a "steam table" and turned over with a spatula until it was soft enough to press. Ath this spoint it was folded in half and placed in the press.

The advent of the plastic extruder put manufacturers of steam tables out of business almost overnight. Some extruders allow you to use dry powder rather pre-plasticised pellets.

I've checked the specs of this machine and yes it is very slow.

Alpha specifies 22 seconds for a 12" record and 15 seconds for a 7" record using steam pressure of 140-170psi.

[PALOMINO]

Alpha specifies 22 seconds for a 12" record and 15 seconds for a 7"

We can only dream!

[mossboss]

Alpha specifies 22 seconds for a 12" record and 15 seconds for a 7"

We can only dream!

Yes and NO
Here is an extract from a "High Speed Mould" brochure dated about 1976
for a 10 H 537 press manual operation
it goes like this:

Working Periods
7" 10" 12"
1 Manual work when press open 4 5 5
2 Closing of press 2 3 4
3 Additional heating time 1 2 4
4 Cooling time 7 10 16
5 Opening of press 2 2 2
Total cycle 16s 22s 31s
These are straight from the brochure
Some one in a past life has marked down the 16s quoted to 14s and the 31s quoted to 27 s
Disclaimers
1. The manual time depends on the working arrangements at the press the preheating device used etc
2 & 5 The closing and opening speeds are adjustable within certain limits
3.The length of the additional heating period varies according to the temperature of the cooling water and the type and quality of the vinyl compound and the steam pressure
4. The length of the cooling period varies according to the temperature of the cooling water and also the pressure and quality of the water
Note:
Alpha recomend 170 PSI steam as well as 18 degrees C water at an inlet pressure of 170 PSI as well so as to overcome steam pressure
These steam and water pressures are recommended for sort cycle times
(Alpha Comment)

The above is verbatim from the brochure

Never the less I have posted somewhere else cycle times that we achieve It is about 65 per hour on each size 7" or 12" with steam at 100 PSI and water at that pressure as well, which makes sense
The problem is not machine speed is operator endurance for a day's shift
they are good for about a couple of hours at that rate They fall to about 60 after that After a break of an hour or so the cycle starts again 65 than 60 than forget it
In reality it does not make that much difference as the average run is about 300 units at a time so we allow a morning for a job and an afternoon for another It works fine
Cheers
PS formating just dissapeared read the no's as shown 7" 10" 12" 1.2.3.

[PALOMINO]

We are only getting about 120 PSI of steam and cold water, which allows us a 30 second cycle for 7" and 45 second cycle for 12". We can alter the speed a bit but this is where we found the best consistency. Honestly, between trimming the record, checking the grooves on both sides, applying labels, and putting down the vinyl biscuit It wouldn't be possible to run much faster than 30 seconds in our operation.

[mossboss]

We are only getting about 120 PSI of steam and cold water, which allows us a 30 second cycle for 7" and 45 second cycle for 12". We can alter the speed a bit but this is where we found the best consistency. Honestly, between trimming the record, checking the grooves on both sides, applying labels, and putting down the vinyl biscuit It wouldn't be possible to run much faster than 30 seconds in our operation.

This makes sense of course as you are running 120 psi of steam it is a factor that is the most critical in so far as speed is concerned given that the press is fast enough The Alphas are damn fast
And yes your times are about right although we are about a bit slower due to lower steam pressure at 100 psi
I have an original document from Alpha addressed The Radio Corporation dated 25 October 1967 where they are lamenting the fact that the average run in their plant with 16 presses was about 300 records per title Got me by surprise I must admit Here is what they where saying Verbatim in one section of this letter
7" 200 x 8 = 1600 51/3 stamper changes, in total 55 minutes corresponding to a production loss of 185 records. Daily production say 1400 records

Note: Don't ask me what the 51/3 means I am quoting verbatim

12" 100x 8 = 800, 4 stamper changes of 10 minutes in total 40 minutes corresponding to a production loss of 67 records. Caily production 723 records say 720 records per day
It comments about Festival Records who are in the same boat but getting 210 x 7" per hour including stamper changes
One of these days I should find out how to scan and post up some of this correspondence It does make fascinating reading
In the scheme of things we are doing fine and so are you whithorse If the gurus in the game running a model plant back in the days when vinyl was at it's prime had these production levels It seems to me that we are OK
Keeping in mind that they used this plant in Sweden to sell machines from I would have thought it would have been a model installation rather than just another plant
It does surprise me that Festival Records where doing 210 per hour as an average over 8 hours There must have been a guy with a whip in hand to get the press operators doing them at just over 17 Seconds each over a day's shift Whoa
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

Gentlemen,

I'm sorry to say that we did this in my plant with a steam pressure of 160psi (or was it 150psi??).

At RCA Sydney one of the two 7" press operators would churn out four 7" discs per minute while reading the newspaper which he would fold in half and place in front of him on the press!!!!!!!!!!!!! These were Alpha 10H or 11H presses. His name was George and nobody stood there with a whip!

[PALOMINO]

Gentlemen,

I'm sorry to say that we did this in my plant with a steam pressure of 160psi (or was it 150psi??).

At RCA Sydney one of the two 7" press operators would churn out four 7" discs per minute while reading the newspaper which he would fold in half and place in front of him on the press!!!!!!!!!!!!! These were Alpha 10H or 11H presses. His name was George and nobody stood there with a whip!

Wow, that is getting it! I will have to look into how these Alpha presses operate. I can see how 4 per minute is possible if all the operator has to do is take the record out, place the labels and biscuit and shut the plates. But this is assuming that everything is automatic once the record is removed....research time!

[mossboss]

Gentlemen,

I'm sorry to say that we did this in my plant with a steam pressure of 160psi (or was it 150psi??).

His name was George and nobody stood there with a whip!

But this is assuming that everything is automatic once the record is removed....research time!

And so what!
4 per minute 5, 10 or more per minute! Where on earth are all this records are going to go to anyway
In the last two years or so there has been more presses available for sale around the world than at any other time that I know off Besides machines are taken of factory floors and are mothballed
What does that tell? Oh there is a great demand out there lets make them faster as we cannot keep up with the demand? I would have thought not
Let's all of us be realistic about the state of the game as it is There is nothing wrong in looking at it from a historic point in so far as production times levels and all of that
What has this to do with today's demands on production ability as well as capacity required to satisfy demand?
Not Much There is plenty of existing capacity at current production ability and level Much to my dissapointment I must admit I would have liked to have seen it going the other way Unfortunately it is not the case
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

"So what" you say????

Depends on your situatation I guess. I always like ot get my work done promptly and then go home. NO need to spend more time at work than you have to.

If you have only four orders a week, each for 200 records, why spend a whole week doing what you can do in one day?? That gives you four days at the beach and with a mobile telephone you can still answer enquiries and run your business from the beach!

I just had a flashback... George at RCA would fold his newspaper into quarters, not halves. He would sit it on the shelf at the front of the press together with three or four vinyl extrusions and do it all while READING the newspaper. The other 7" press operator, Phillip, would also make 4 x 7" discs per hour but was not one to read the newspaper at the same time.

[mossboss]

Are you sure about all that Aussie?

[The other 7" press operator, Phillip, would also make 4 x 7" discs per hour but was not one to read the newspaper at the same time.]

Surprised! At this rate, if Philip was pushing 4 x 7" per hour he could have read the Daily Telecrap every day (I must admit not much in there) as well as Leo Tolsty's War and Peace (about 550,000 words) in about a week

Hey aussie, Yes I have heard of George. Legend has it that he was an awsome press man I never did see any plants based back than in your parts of the world anyway so we just let him be, The legendary pressman at RCA
I wonder if he is still around?
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

Yes, very funny Mossy.... ofcourse that should have read : "per minute" and not "per hour".

[Aussie0zborn]

The cost of this is less than USD $50,000-00. Manufactured as a custom order with the appropriate hydraulics and control, you can realise a cycle time of 15 seconds. This could be a better option than restoring an old machine that is heavily worn.

[dietrich10]

Can it run without massive boiler and water system?
I still dream of a press in the corner of basement or garage without the town getting on me...

[Aussie0zborn]

You wanna do this at home? This press has a built-in hydraulic system. Every press needs steam and water to heat and cool the moulds.

You can use an electric steam boiler as it doesn't have a flue (chimney) and set up a small water cooler in your backyard. If the neighbours ask tell them the water cooler is for you air conditioning system.

So I guess you can do it at home but hydraulic pumps are often noisy. In any case, this is not the kind of gear you want in your home.