plating lexan....first tests

[flozki]

hello
i just come from mastercraft plating in new jersey where
i had the great pleasure to get some lexan test done on silvering and plating.

so silvering was easy. no problem at all. i just had some real used 10 inch discs with me and with the standard procedure for laquer discs,
desmond coated a nice silver layer on the lexan.

plating was not very sucessfull. he started with 10 amps in the hgh speed bath. so that was maybe to much current. after a short while it started to get an orange peel of nickle. and we stopped.
also only the inner 2/3 of the plate was plated....
but it was not a refernece cut. it was one of my looping discs i used for last 5 month for many performances..so that plate was dirty and the grooves maybe very used...

but it is a positive start. i was surprised how good silvering went.
and for sure the palting process has to be optimised somehow..
so folks. more tests please...it seems not impossible...

f.
pictures as soon as i can get them on my computer....

[mossboss]

Hey Flo
Can you be more specific please
Bath temp? Sulfamate content? pH ? Any clues on these?
Any pre plating done at low amps low V?
If the plate was dirty it would not have silvered well so this can be almost discounted
If the nickel took in the inner two thirds it seems that the silvering was Ok to start off with
Current was oK or else it would have "burned" the centre due to high curent
It looks encouraging all the same Waiting for photos PLEASE
Cheers

[emorritt]

I think it has to do with the metal core (even with the silver surface) in the plating stage... lexan (or any plastic for that matter) will never replace lacquer as far as 1) frequency response and quality for instantaneous records and 2) for masters for the same reasons. Sorry to be a naysayer, but plastic is OK for DJ type recordings and low cost solutions for hobbyists, but I don't think it will ever work well for mastering for production. Just my US$.02 worth

[mossboss]

Hey Eric
I do not know how it is going to work
Plating on plastic surfaces has been going on for a long time
Most auto components that used to be chromium plated metal it is now days made of some kind of plastic either plated or vacuum metalised
So I am hopeful that it will work
It may be an answer to this current situation
I am going to have to have a go at it myself I am afraid
I thought I would have the benefit of some experiments prior to that
By the way
As a bet we did nickel plate some female pubic hair for a dude that chalenged us, You can not do it, he said
Well you get some and we will do it was the answer
It was quite a success
He did mount them with a bit of super glue on a little wooden base
Still hold place of pride in his office
Based on that I figure it can be done
Cheers

[flozki]

hei i dont know the bath temperature, ph whatever

it was just another quick and dirty test...
and it was made in the regular bath of mastercraft.
so i think it was standard for laquers.

i agree that this is never a replacement for laquers...
but. i prefer a not perfect replacement to NO replacement.
unfortunately we have to worry about.....sooner or later...
and there is plenty of room for progress.

this was just a test. nothing more. i wanted to know (and i guess many more) if it can get plated.
and it seems that this is possible. so instead filling the formum if it is possible or not desmond just took it and did the tests in 10 minutes.
thats all.

so say again YES we can. hehe.
and try whatever is flat and fits on your turntable...

[Aussie0zborn]

... As a bet we did nickel plate some female pubic hair...

Did you silver them first? And by the way... how do you know they were female? Maybe they were the dude's????

Flo, the lacquer disc has a metallic base, as you know. The lacquer around the centre hole on the back of the disc and the lacquer at the edge is scraped off to make for a good electrical contact with the cathode. I dont think you Lexan disc had any electrical contact at the edge, hence not plating all the way to the edge. If it silvered OK then it should have plated. I think this is the reason for plating only the inner 2/3rd of the disc.

A bit more experimenting should yield results.

[flozki]

here some pictures...
http://www.floka.com/lofi/lexan_plating1/lexan_plating.html

[flozki]

and yes
sure it is a problem with not having a metal core....

desmond asked if i can not get that stuff on an aluminum base...

i think with an adapted plating process it might work.
also the lexan needs to be thicker ?
lots of questions. but for the moment i am happy that at least silvering works without any change....

i dont run any galvanics. so that stuff you might have to test down under...

[Aussie0zborn]

Nice pictures. If you look at Lexan face plates on rack-mount equipment, it is adhered to the metal with something similar to double-sided tape. I don't think the electroplater would want to put tape in his tanks but you can use Araldite to glue the Lexan to an aluminium disc and then plating might be succesful. Araldite was often used to "plug" the second hole in a ref acetate if you wanted to cut a master on it so it is safe to use in the plating tanks.

You can strip the lacquer of a disc by placing it in boiling water as they did at Transco to re-use the aluminium substrate on a bad lacquer.

[markrob]

HI,

Would you get the effect of an aluminum core if you silvered the back of the Lexan as well as the front before plating?

Mark

[mossboss]

Hey Flo
Thanks for the pics Very telling
Interesting I have seen this before many times in lacquers
In particular when you cut reference lights
Unlike what Aussie is saying there is no way that you can plate them now days may be one could have in the past
When you try to plate them They look just like that with wet centres all wrinkled up and an incomplete plate Or burned holes in the nickel if it has managed to plate all over
Now in my view what has happened is that the silver got "burned" in the groove where the nickel stops
So there was no continiuty
Very encouraging indeed
I think the issue can be overcome at least I think it would not be a major issue
I cannot see the aluminium being of any advantage in terms of eloctroforming
We have stopped scrapping the back of lacquers as the fines get caught in the crooves making for crackles and pops galore
We use exactly the same little brass ring as in the photo it works fine without any scraping off the lacquer however you have to start at low low current or else failure

Cheers

[Osmose]

Hey Eric
By the way
As a bet we did nickel plate some female pubic hair for a dude that chalenged us, You can not do it, he said
Well you get some and we will do it was the answer
It was quite a success
He did mount them with a bit of super glue on a little wooden base
Still hold place of pride in his office
Based on that I figure it can be done
Cheers

Your awesome!

[montalbano]

Well Flo you certainly don't need any explanations but I think that it depends on the thickness of the Lexan disc (you should use 2mm thick discs). If thickness is not enough the disc into the bath will slightly bend and the silver film will break causing bad conductivity.
We did a test here one year ago at our local company going VERY SLOW and it worked. But it was a real pain and anyway it was a rather poor stamper - even if it was complete.
Yes, you can go slow and keep the temp low. But the real fact is quality. You can have two kinds of nickel electroforming, crystalline or amorphous. The slower you will go, the more crystalline the deposition will be and this will mean to have a bad stamper. It also depends on how the nickel is held in place but this is a matter of fact and you can't change this.
Chris you probably know what I'm talking about.
What I mean is that if after all these struggles you mount the stamper on the press and it breaks after the first pressing, you will ask yourself if it was worth or not!

[mossboss]

Hey Montalbano
Good to see you back here posting man
Crystaline deposition is the bain of electroforming Amorphous is what you need and you Aim for it or else a waste of time and effort
Besides noisy records No doubt
This can be prevented by a variety of methods known to those versed in the Art
In other words it not only Current voltage relationship but pH temperature Nickel content in the bath as well as the way you feed the plating cell
Arghh the black art that exists in every plating shop as it is unique to each bath
Way and Far Apart of course from the general rules set down by Faraday over 100 years ago of which every one in the game is taught at the tech school
Time will tell It would no doubt be an excelent alternative
By the way there is an EMI patent describing the process using 6 and 8 mm Cast Acrylic for the same purposes back in the 50's or 60's
Is there any one here who knows about it?
It will be good to have some input on this
Cheers

[KALIA]

VERY INTERESTING FLOZKI!
Been calling around to see if any one can doo this, it would be nice if it was possible, galvanimat was up for tring. even if it is a bit more lofi.. we could cut some serious recs..

[KALIA]

Any news on this interessting subjekt?