Label question from a collector

[LotusN]

Hi all,

Here’s a question about labels from a newbie!

I have discussed the manufacturing process of 7” vinyl singles with a friend and I guess this will the best place to get the correct answer. My question is how the labels are made and I have seen clips on YouTube where paper labels are attached when the record is pressed. If the label is printed/painted on the record like the one on the attached picture I guess the label imprint must be in the stamper. I believe it's done like this: When the record is pressed there will be a negative "print" on the record and after that it passes a printing machine (maybe a tampon/pad printer) that has a large round pad that adds the paint. Is that correct or is it done in any other way?

I have seen this done at the Märklin model train factory were they used this technique for the thin lines, letters and logos on locomotives and coaches.

I am a record collector mainly but I also have a general interest in technical stuff and it is really amazing to read about the machines used to produce a vinyl record. I understand that this forum is full of knowledge of all parts in the record manufacturing process. I'm impressed!

All the best
Lars

[mossboss]

Nothing that complex mate
The labels are printed in an offset printing press just like a book or anything else they are than punched out or die cut They are dried out as they need to be real dry before they can be used on the presses
If they are multi colour it would be CMYK full process color or they may be an image in a colored ink like black or red or blue ink printed on colored or white paper so it is a print over a colored background paper
They are placed either side of the record molds prior to the hot pvc being introduced between the stampers so as ti identify side A or B list the tracks etc etc
When the record is finally pressed they become part of the record extremely difficult to remove as they "cook" on the PVC
Here is a link where you can see it quite clear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=XDtUzbWuXLU&NR=1
Cheers

[mossboss]

By the way Welcome aboard
The label between the PVC bit is at around 0.16 in from the start
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

The Genesis record in your photo is an injection/compression moulded polystyrene record. You are correct in assuming that the label image is in the stamper. This is done using the letterpress printing process. The record is passed between two paint rollers for a coat of paint. There is no pad printer with tampons here.

The whole process took about six seconds. Polystyrene wears very quickly and surface noise becomes evident real soon. The theory was that 7" pop music singles are played non-stop for about six weeks and then never played again.

Some American companies made 12" polystyrene records. We have had a major discusison on this over at the Record Collectors Guild : www.recordcollectorsguild.org

[LotusN]

Hi mossboss and AussieOzborne,

Thank you for welcoming me and your answers.

My record has a printed label and not a paper and I have read some other threads about the difference between vinyl and polystyrene and that makes me sure that this is a vinyl record. It is black, it impossible to see through, it’s flexible, has a sharp edge and visible cutting marks and it has the normal vinyl sheen. If I have understand correctly all polystyrene pressings had a thicker flat edge, were not as flexible and if you hold them against a light you could see through them.

I have compared this to a John Miles single on the Orange label (made 1973) and that is most definitely a polystyrene record. It has all the characteristics of a polystyrene record. It looks black but held against a light it is dark red / purple and it has the flat edge etc.

The reason I thought that some sort of pad had been used is that the serrated marking are actually higher than the label and I have some trouble visualising the process when the record should pass through the two paint rollers without getting any paint on the serration. Doesn’t the entire label have to be higher than the playing surface for that method to work or is the paint rollers shaped in a special way?

Are the paint rollers round like a tube and then there is something rolled around it (same size as the label). The thing that is rolled around it is the actual piece that applies the paint? My school English does cover the technical terms I’m afraid. (I’m Swedish)

I have another picture but the printing on that has gone wrong. Looking at that I understand that my first thought with a round pad possibly would have made a nice round print even if the record was misaligned, on the other hand would the paint roller not also make a round print? Is it possible that the thing that hold the paint got misaligned?

If someone got a picture of the paint rollers or even better if there is a video I might understand!

Cheers
Lars

[mossboss]

This looks like an English pressing with the serrations around the label area
The labels where and are also smaller by 3 mm so as to leave the serrations intact not been covered up with paper
I am not so sure I can answer your question but, it is hard to tell from the photo of that miss print Not sure what it is
If I had it in my hands I would have had a better change but well
That is the nature and beauty of collecting
Cheers

[LotusN]

Yes, it's an English pressing and when I checked it more closely it turned out to be a polystyrene with the flat edge. It's pressed 1992 and it doesn't have any serration at all. The label looks a bit more sloppy than the one on the first picture.

The first one is Made in France but most of the English Genesis 7" from that time (1980) looks the same. The overall finish is much higher on the ones made in the mid 70's - early 80's.

Cheers
Lars

[Aussie0zborn]

Good point about the serrations. Not having paint on them when they are higher than the label area does of course suggest a pad printer. I had only seen this process once at EMI Hayes UK in 1988. The record definitely went through paint rollers but thinking about it, perhaps the rollers were actually tampons that picked the ink up off a pad? You would have to check a known EMI UK polystyrene 7" record to see if it has any serrations.

The shape and thickness of the record is not enough to determine whether it is is vinyl or polystyrene. Anyone can make a mould of any shape and use whatever material they like.

I only have one polystyrene record in my collection and I don't have it handy it bubt I think you have identified the qualities of a polystyrene record to be able to identify one. I have never seen a video of these records being pressed so right now we only have my memory to work from. None of these machines are in use anywhere today.

MAP in France also made a horizontal injection/compression record press and I believe this used vinyl. Perhaps it was possible to use a pad printer with this machine? The last one in use was at Vinylium Belgium which closed last year.

I don't think we can provide any ore information so I hope you are not losing any sleep over this