14" masters only in UK?
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Dub Studio
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14" masters only in UK?
I heard there is no where in the UK that will take anything but 14" masters. Is this true? Does anyone know of a place in the UK I could send 12" or 10" masters?
Hello Can you be more specific please What are you trying to do get some metal work done from your masters which are 10" and 12"??? rather than 14"????
If that is the case let me say how it works
Most plating baths are set up for 14" masters It will take about an hour or 2 so as to take the Perspex backing plates Off so as to do the smaller sizes
The damn things seize up with solution Since they are not removed any more than once a year it becomes a job and a half
No one wants to do that just for a couple of jobs and no one wants to dedicate a bath for 7" and another for 10 as there is no great demand
There is one firm that I can put you on to in the UK who may consider doing it depending where you will get the records pressed and he may want a bit extra but please confirm the above as I am only guessing
Cheers
If that is the case let me say how it works
Most plating baths are set up for 14" masters It will take about an hour or 2 so as to take the Perspex backing plates Off so as to do the smaller sizes
The damn things seize up with solution Since they are not removed any more than once a year it becomes a job and a half
No one wants to do that just for a couple of jobs and no one wants to dedicate a bath for 7" and another for 10 as there is no great demand
There is one firm that I can put you on to in the UK who may consider doing it depending where you will get the records pressed and he may want a bit extra but please confirm the above as I am only guessing
Cheers
Chris
As another thought there is no reason why you could not, say, glue them on a 14" backing out of a 1.5 mm Perspex and send them off
You need to leave a 2" hole on the Perspex so the lacquer can be scraped of the back of the aluminium centre on the master
It should work for all of them just a thought
Cheers
You need to leave a 2" hole on the Perspex so the lacquer can be scraped of the back of the aluminium centre on the master
It should work for all of them just a thought
Cheers
Chris
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Aussie0zborn
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Aussie0zborn
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10" master lacquer discs are made for 7" master cuts or 10" reference cuts.
12" master lacquer discs are made for 10" master cuts or 12" reference cuts.
14" master lacquer discs are made for 12" master cuts and if you dont mind wasting money you can also use them for 7" and 10" cuts, as we all know.
Maybe Mossy can shed some more light on the subject from a plating point of view.
12" master lacquer discs are made for 10" master cuts or 12" reference cuts.
14" master lacquer discs are made for 12" master cuts and if you dont mind wasting money you can also use them for 7" and 10" cuts, as we all know.
Maybe Mossy can shed some more light on the subject from a plating point of view.
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Dub Studio
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Aussie0zborn
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Dub Studio
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I am not opposed to the idea of direct stampers per se, I am just opposed to using 14" lacquers for a 7" pressing unless there is a good reason for it.
If there is a place in the UK that would be ready and willing to process 10" and 12" lacquers for the same price as 14" ones, then I am sure they would want to hear from me.
If there is a place in the UK that would be ready and willing to process 10" and 12" lacquers for the same price as 14" ones, then I am sure they would want to hear from me.
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Dub Studio
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Dub Studio
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For anyone who does not have exposure to plating/stampers
The lacquer is placed on the spindle
There is a rubber ring that goes around the lacquer
The ring has a thick enough space around the perimeter so as to also wrap around the Perspex backing which is on the spindle
The lacquer than is secured so as to keep it firm and flat on the spindle
When the current is turned up on the first, second and third step there is a tendency for the lacquer to wrap somewhat
Since on some baths the space between the lacquer and the titanium basket where the nickel is held is very small any movement is to be avoided
The gap is only 1/4" and a 14" lacquer will wrap 1/4" no doubt about it
unless it is secured on the backing plate it will start rubbing on the baskets
On the assumption that you have only placed the rubber around the lacquer it will rub against the basket the rubber ring will wear away in no time creating a short with the end result being a cooked lacquer and a blown fuse which no one wants
The rubber wears away exposing the metal being built up on the lacquer it will be a dead short
I have seen it more than once In one instance it blew a 400 amp fuse on the secondary of the transformer cooked the lacquer and ruined a $600 titanium basket on top of a $250 re cut
Not good for any one involved
If the short is bad enough the aluminium also melts as the transformers can deliver 300 amps which results in solution contamination
At $15 per litre and 1000 litres of solution in the tanks no one wants to replace the sulfamate solution for around the $15,000 as well as getting charged another$4-5,000 to dispose of the contaminated solution
This applies for the Europa Film high speed baths which have a slopping front where the nickel is held
Assuming that people have read my previous post and the shop is not prepared to change the backing plates as well as the assumption that there are other baths where the Nickel is held in the base it is not as big an issue
So here is what can be done
One can do them on the pre-plating baths which run at 35-40 C with no more than about 30-40 amps of current no issue with lacquers but it may be when you are doing metal to metal
This way it will take about 12 hours to get a first stamper out as against 1.5-2.5 hours than if you need to make a positive another step same time
So in the Europa baths you used to have backing plates with 14" 12" and 10" Perspex backing plates so as to do whatever is required
That was in the days where the average shop had 30-50 baths Not now day where 8-12 baths is the norm
Now the point is short cuts do not guaranty a safe method of doing the job Why would any one take the risk, no one wants to do that secondly the job
It can be done over a long period but the risk is still there
The plater cooks the lacquer he has to pay for it as well as the cutter and waste all this time for the shake of a small saving
It is not a case of twisting any ones arm It is a case of efficiency as well as knowing that it will be OK
Besides and this may not go down well but this is how it works
A pressing shop given plates so as to press 150 x 7" records with white labels and in generic white jackets will finish up with the princely sum of $150 odd dollars They have to supply the PVC presses space set up the press etc
The cutter/mastering guy got $350-500 and has done quite well out of a studio Now the pressing guy will get all the responsibility of split plates rejects quality issues etc etc etc for the smallest component of the job
Give your jobs to a shop that does the whole lot cut plate and press there is a little bit of a margin there Try to short cut it by taking the lions share of the pie and leaving the pressing shop with the crumbs than one has issues getting a pair of ears to listen to him
There was at least 3 independent platers in the UK up and until a year ago they all shut shop and gone west
Finally
There is a guy in the UK left who will do them so if you pm me I will give you his Number
PS: This was put together with a lot of breaks in between so it may be a bit here and there but the guts is right
Cheers
The lacquer is placed on the spindle
There is a rubber ring that goes around the lacquer
The ring has a thick enough space around the perimeter so as to also wrap around the Perspex backing which is on the spindle
The lacquer than is secured so as to keep it firm and flat on the spindle
When the current is turned up on the first, second and third step there is a tendency for the lacquer to wrap somewhat
Since on some baths the space between the lacquer and the titanium basket where the nickel is held is very small any movement is to be avoided
The gap is only 1/4" and a 14" lacquer will wrap 1/4" no doubt about it
unless it is secured on the backing plate it will start rubbing on the baskets
On the assumption that you have only placed the rubber around the lacquer it will rub against the basket the rubber ring will wear away in no time creating a short with the end result being a cooked lacquer and a blown fuse which no one wants
The rubber wears away exposing the metal being built up on the lacquer it will be a dead short
I have seen it more than once In one instance it blew a 400 amp fuse on the secondary of the transformer cooked the lacquer and ruined a $600 titanium basket on top of a $250 re cut
Not good for any one involved
If the short is bad enough the aluminium also melts as the transformers can deliver 300 amps which results in solution contamination
At $15 per litre and 1000 litres of solution in the tanks no one wants to replace the sulfamate solution for around the $15,000 as well as getting charged another$4-5,000 to dispose of the contaminated solution
This applies for the Europa Film high speed baths which have a slopping front where the nickel is held
Assuming that people have read my previous post and the shop is not prepared to change the backing plates as well as the assumption that there are other baths where the Nickel is held in the base it is not as big an issue
So here is what can be done
One can do them on the pre-plating baths which run at 35-40 C with no more than about 30-40 amps of current no issue with lacquers but it may be when you are doing metal to metal
This way it will take about 12 hours to get a first stamper out as against 1.5-2.5 hours than if you need to make a positive another step same time
So in the Europa baths you used to have backing plates with 14" 12" and 10" Perspex backing plates so as to do whatever is required
That was in the days where the average shop had 30-50 baths Not now day where 8-12 baths is the norm
Now the point is short cuts do not guaranty a safe method of doing the job Why would any one take the risk, no one wants to do that secondly the job
It can be done over a long period but the risk is still there
The plater cooks the lacquer he has to pay for it as well as the cutter and waste all this time for the shake of a small saving
It is not a case of twisting any ones arm It is a case of efficiency as well as knowing that it will be OK
Besides and this may not go down well but this is how it works
A pressing shop given plates so as to press 150 x 7" records with white labels and in generic white jackets will finish up with the princely sum of $150 odd dollars They have to supply the PVC presses space set up the press etc
The cutter/mastering guy got $350-500 and has done quite well out of a studio Now the pressing guy will get all the responsibility of split plates rejects quality issues etc etc etc for the smallest component of the job
Give your jobs to a shop that does the whole lot cut plate and press there is a little bit of a margin there Try to short cut it by taking the lions share of the pie and leaving the pressing shop with the crumbs than one has issues getting a pair of ears to listen to him
There was at least 3 independent platers in the UK up and until a year ago they all shut shop and gone west
Finally
There is a guy in the UK left who will do them so if you pm me I will give you his Number
PS: This was put together with a lot of breaks in between so it may be a bit here and there but the guts is right
Cheers
Chris
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Aussie0zborn
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Dub Studio
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Thanks for all the info, but really I am just interested to see if anyone in the UK is ready and willing to perform this type of service. Obviously I am not gonna ask someone to change their whole set up just so I can save a few quid on 150 seven inches 
That is what I mean by arm twisting. I am looking for someone who is happy to take 10" or 12" masters as standard, regardless of quantity.
That is what I mean by arm twisting. I am looking for someone who is happy to take 10" or 12" masters as standard, regardless of quantity.
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Dub Studio
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MY45 is accepting 10inch masters.
Thanks mossy for this long entry, I think doing 7inches on a 14" Master
is a waste of money and energy.
O.k. if you have some laquers, with defects, or bad cuts, that still can
be used for 7inch cutting....
anyway, MY45 works normally only with 10" masters for 7inch records,
for 10" I use also only 14", because of the lower demand.
And mossy is also right, I prefer to do the hole job, not only pressing,
some freak also send me the stampers and labels, but not too much
of my customers... otherwise I don´t make money.....
Thanks mossy for this long entry, I think doing 7inches on a 14" Master
is a waste of money and energy.
O.k. if you have some laquers, with defects, or bad cuts, that still can
be used for 7inch cutting....
anyway, MY45 works normally only with 10" masters for 7inch records,
for 10" I use also only 14", because of the lower demand.
And mossy is also right, I prefer to do the hole job, not only pressing,
some freak also send me the stampers and labels, but not too much
of my customers... otherwise I don´t make money.....
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montalbano
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We always cut the masters for the 7"s on 10" Apollo lacquers and plate them without issues; we make the complete process so also the metal to metal plating, so if you have no luck in the UK you can send your master lacquer here and we'll do the job.
The Italian way:
In our baths the drive shafts of each spindle are protruding some mm out of the surface of the 14" backplate.
So we place a used 10" lacquer, properly scratched in the center in order to ensure that the electric current is conducted, and use it as a backplate (Mossy will horrify). We lock e.g. the 10" negative or positive and the "backplate" with the gumband, secure them tight against the shaft and that's it.
Maybe the bath goes up a little bit in temp, but we never had any issue of warping of the positives or stampers with this "technique". We always plate rather slowly, max 110-120A
The Italian way:
In our baths the drive shafts of each spindle are protruding some mm out of the surface of the 14" backplate.
So we place a used 10" lacquer, properly scratched in the center in order to ensure that the electric current is conducted, and use it as a backplate (Mossy will horrify). We lock e.g. the 10" negative or positive and the "backplate" with the gumband, secure them tight against the shaft and that's it.
Maybe the bath goes up a little bit in temp, but we never had any issue of warping of the positives or stampers with this "technique". We always plate rather slowly, max 110-120A
Phil from Phono Press, Milan, Italy
http://www.phonopress.it
http://www.phonopress.it
Emi presses or machines only take a 14" master shaped down to 12" 10" or 7" and have done so since they inception
So here is one example
About waste of time and energy Let me say this I do know when one has no plating experience or do not have any plating gear in their place gaining information from wherever becoming internet experts is no substitute for exposure on the job
But you can always ask Wolfgang as well who makes yours as well as other people plates in Germany mate
We go through about 250-350 KG of nickel per month making stampers so who the Fuck is going to tell us anything new about it??
If it the case that anything new it will be a pleasure so I can learn something please?????
As montalbano says he uses a backing plate so as to stiffen the mounting method so the damn things do not short out so as to cause issues
He does use low current which I have already explained in a prior post
At Phono press the guy its been there about 20-25 years does it every damn day
My other two guys have been doing it for 31 and 22 years respectively and in our other plating facility another person is on the job every day for the last 10 years
Me forget me I am an absolute novice besides I talk shit OK!
Now it is no different than the guy who want to press 12" with an air ram or the guys here that want to cut professional quality masters on a Wilcox Gay with an Astatic head
The fact remains that since this industry is well and tried over many years the methods which applied in the past no longer have any merit today in the current environment
So if people do not want to take into account well tested as well as safe methods of doing a job that's fine They can do whatever they wish of course and put up with difficulties
I cannot understand why people assume that there would be a service available to them at their whims from a plant without first checking out what can be provided I am sure that if I was to do something I would first find out what services are available Its like buying a Lamborghini taking it in Anchorage Alaska expecting a service for it there
It does not take away what I have posted on the subject and why it is done in some place the way I have described
Now another point Andy if you where to take into account the extra time taken it is no energy saving at all and the waste of nickel it no great loss at about 60% scrap value
Believe me its about even
Any way
One can take a horse to water but he cannot make him drink
Cheers
So here is one example
About waste of time and energy Let me say this I do know when one has no plating experience or do not have any plating gear in their place gaining information from wherever becoming internet experts is no substitute for exposure on the job
But you can always ask Wolfgang as well who makes yours as well as other people plates in Germany mate
We go through about 250-350 KG of nickel per month making stampers so who the Fuck is going to tell us anything new about it??
If it the case that anything new it will be a pleasure so I can learn something please?????
As montalbano says he uses a backing plate so as to stiffen the mounting method so the damn things do not short out so as to cause issues
He does use low current which I have already explained in a prior post
At Phono press the guy its been there about 20-25 years does it every damn day
My other two guys have been doing it for 31 and 22 years respectively and in our other plating facility another person is on the job every day for the last 10 years
Me forget me I am an absolute novice besides I talk shit OK!
Now it is no different than the guy who want to press 12" with an air ram or the guys here that want to cut professional quality masters on a Wilcox Gay with an Astatic head
The fact remains that since this industry is well and tried over many years the methods which applied in the past no longer have any merit today in the current environment
So if people do not want to take into account well tested as well as safe methods of doing a job that's fine They can do whatever they wish of course and put up with difficulties
I cannot understand why people assume that there would be a service available to them at their whims from a plant without first checking out what can be provided I am sure that if I was to do something I would first find out what services are available Its like buying a Lamborghini taking it in Anchorage Alaska expecting a service for it there
It does not take away what I have posted on the subject and why it is done in some place the way I have described
Now another point Andy if you where to take into account the extra time taken it is no energy saving at all and the waste of nickel it no great loss at about 60% scrap value
Believe me its about even
Any way
One can take a horse to water but he cannot make him drink
Cheers
Chris
