Hi there, eventhough I have this account a few years now Im really kind of new.
Im basically a music producer and Ive been making records for 17 years now in my country. Just a few of my releases have been pressed on vinyl but Id like to press more of my music.
I was wondering: What costs am I looking at if I want to set up a small private pressing plant from scratch?
From lathe cutting to plating to pressing.
No big production line cos Im talking about small numbers.
What gear is best to look at and what it the price range were talking about?
How much space is required?
Thank you in advance.
-
Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Welcome to the Forum. We get this question quite often and it has been answered in detail over a number of posts. The best thing is to do a search and you will find all the information you need.
The quick answer is : Don't do it. You will need $50,000 - $80,000 to set up just one press properly and then after you do your προσευχή a few times you might make nice quiet, flat records. A Neumann VMS70 Disc cutting system is around USD $30,000. A plating system and all the rest that goes with it will depend on what you find as there aren't any around at the moment and so if anything becomes available the price is whatever the seller asks for it. It is not an easy job and best left to the experts.
If you insist on doing it, you might...
(a) visit a pressing plant first - there are plenty in Europe and there are at least four members here who own plants.
(b) find someone who worked at Fabelsound and see if they know where their record presses ended up. You might find something stored in a shed somewhere. The Neumann disc cutting lathe from EMI-Columbia Greece ended up in a private studio somewhere in Athens - maybe you can find it if it's not being used? What happened to the lathe from Fabelsound? You might know some guy called Minos - he sold an old Neuman AM32B lathe with brand new and never used Ortofon cutting amps + head for 20,000 Euro to a guy in Korea six or seven years ago. So that's the kind of money you can expect to pay.
Think of how many records you can get pressed with this money (more than $130,000) - and how much you could sell them for. For pressing in your region, I would suggest you contact Phil at Phonopress who is not too far from you in Italy. www.phonopress.it
Να 'σαι καλά.
The quick answer is : Don't do it. You will need $50,000 - $80,000 to set up just one press properly and then after you do your προσευχή a few times you might make nice quiet, flat records. A Neumann VMS70 Disc cutting system is around USD $30,000. A plating system and all the rest that goes with it will depend on what you find as there aren't any around at the moment and so if anything becomes available the price is whatever the seller asks for it. It is not an easy job and best left to the experts.
If you insist on doing it, you might...
(a) visit a pressing plant first - there are plenty in Europe and there are at least four members here who own plants.
(b) find someone who worked at Fabelsound and see if they know where their record presses ended up. You might find something stored in a shed somewhere. The Neumann disc cutting lathe from EMI-Columbia Greece ended up in a private studio somewhere in Athens - maybe you can find it if it's not being used? What happened to the lathe from Fabelsound? You might know some guy called Minos - he sold an old Neuman AM32B lathe with brand new and never used Ortofon cutting amps + head for 20,000 Euro to a guy in Korea six or seven years ago. So that's the kind of money you can expect to pay.
Think of how many records you can get pressed with this money (more than $130,000) - and how much you could sell them for. For pressing in your region, I would suggest you contact Phil at Phonopress who is not too far from you in Italy. www.phonopress.it
Να 'σαι καλά.
Thnx for the reply.
If you have any posts here that address this Id be glad if you posted the links here.
I really can't afford all this money for private personal use and there is no money to invest for industrial / commercial use.
I was wondering if by any chance i can get away with it with 20k-30k (full set).
Maybe find 3-4 other people interested and split the costs.
But 50k-80k-100k +++ ???
Im still interested in cutting as an art though and i love comparing my the same recordings cut and pressed in different plants.
How did you know about Minos, Columbia and Fabelsound?
Thanks!
If you have any posts here that address this Id be glad if you posted the links here.
I really can't afford all this money for private personal use and there is no money to invest for industrial / commercial use.
I was wondering if by any chance i can get away with it with 20k-30k (full set).
Maybe find 3-4 other people interested and split the costs.
But 50k-80k-100k +++ ???
Im still interested in cutting as an art though and i love comparing my the same recordings cut and pressed in different plants.
How did you know about Minos, Columbia and Fabelsound?
Thanks!
-
Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
Hey Boris
They are available at your local dealer 6 models to choose from
There is also a shop soiled sale at present
Huge discounts as well
If you are prepared to wait a month They will custom make one to your specifications
There is no waiting list at present all floor models are for immediate delivery
Thought I let You Know
Cheers
They are available at your local dealer 6 models to choose from
There is also a shop soiled sale at present
Huge discounts as well
If you are prepared to wait a month They will custom make one to your specifications
There is no waiting list at present all floor models are for immediate delivery
Thought I let You Know
Cheers
Chris
You want to press records. You just found out the realities regarding the costs of setting up a press. You now see that equipment doesn't exist to setup a small personal press with no facilities or boiler.
So, what can you do with 20K to get you closer to your goal. Well, my advice is that you purchase and setup 3 Vinyl Recorders and do Lathe Cuts.
With three VR's running you could realistically do short runs of 30 or 50 or 100 copies. Which sounds like the volume you were looking for to begin with. So, possibly consider setting up a production line for lathe cuts...
http://www.vinylrecorder.com/
So, what can you do with 20K to get you closer to your goal. Well, my advice is that you purchase and setup 3 Vinyl Recorders and do Lathe Cuts.
With three VR's running you could realistically do short runs of 30 or 50 or 100 copies. Which sounds like the volume you were looking for to begin with. So, possibly consider setting up a production line for lathe cuts...
http://www.vinylrecorder.com/
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Good advise but one to start of with I would have thought Having visited the place more than once I have established after talking to various parties there, it seems a very small demand does exist for vinyl records and related products
Mainly a second hand array of shops as well as CD retail outlets with pressings available from days gone past old new stock as well as imports from the EU as well as the USA
A few jobs we have done as well as some small runs where done by Vinilium in Belgium before their demise
Very small demand which no doubt is on the increase like any where else world wide presently
If the demand triples it still does not warrant a pressing plant any way as there are enough around the EU to certainly produce whatever is required there
The Columbia Records old building is still there quite an Icon However the Fabel building and installed gear have all gone the way of most pressing plants world wide demolished with the gear to the scrap yard
I am not sure there was any independent pressing plants there which would or could have survived the down turn through the tenacity of its owners as has happened in the USA and elsewhere
When it is all said and done although there are less than 40 pressing plants left worldwide the demand even increasing as it has is satisfied at present albeit with long turnaround times
Regardless of the increase in demand the plants are not exactly creaming it either as prices paid for pressings today are still way bellow what should be paid in view of what it takes to produce them
A studio with a $20-30 K lathe certainly takes the lions share of the pie But the pressing plant with the installed gear as well as all the issues involved will get left with the crumbs as well as all the headfucks when the end result is not up to scratch
The blame always rest's with the plant as the studio/cutter is always blameless They hold some kind of suprahuman place around like their shit dont smell and nothing ever leaves their place which is not perfect and if the records are shit it is definitely the plants fault
Argh Well that's the game today I get an email or two weekly from people wanting presses to place in their bedroom so as to press records WTF
Every bloke and his dog wants in with the incumbents wondering if this upsurge is going to have legs or is just a flash in the pants
Only time will tell In the mean time let me assure every one here that if the moth balled machines are ever put into production or a second shift instigated in some plants around the production capacity will certainly cover twice the existing demand or more
But who already in the game is going to invest more money when the return is nowhere near enough so as make it viable???
Any one in the game will sit this out that's for sure but for new comers well thats another story
Its a bit like a gold rush at present quite amazing and even though any one reading this may say what is this old fart talking about and why is he still in it let me say we do know all the twists and turns but we do do it as we all really love it Its like a drug addiction Strange as it sounds that's the only way I see it
Cheers
Mainly a second hand array of shops as well as CD retail outlets with pressings available from days gone past old new stock as well as imports from the EU as well as the USA
A few jobs we have done as well as some small runs where done by Vinilium in Belgium before their demise
Very small demand which no doubt is on the increase like any where else world wide presently
If the demand triples it still does not warrant a pressing plant any way as there are enough around the EU to certainly produce whatever is required there
The Columbia Records old building is still there quite an Icon However the Fabel building and installed gear have all gone the way of most pressing plants world wide demolished with the gear to the scrap yard
I am not sure there was any independent pressing plants there which would or could have survived the down turn through the tenacity of its owners as has happened in the USA and elsewhere
When it is all said and done although there are less than 40 pressing plants left worldwide the demand even increasing as it has is satisfied at present albeit with long turnaround times
Regardless of the increase in demand the plants are not exactly creaming it either as prices paid for pressings today are still way bellow what should be paid in view of what it takes to produce them
A studio with a $20-30 K lathe certainly takes the lions share of the pie But the pressing plant with the installed gear as well as all the issues involved will get left with the crumbs as well as all the headfucks when the end result is not up to scratch
The blame always rest's with the plant as the studio/cutter is always blameless They hold some kind of suprahuman place around like their shit dont smell and nothing ever leaves their place which is not perfect and if the records are shit it is definitely the plants fault
Argh Well that's the game today I get an email or two weekly from people wanting presses to place in their bedroom so as to press records WTF
Every bloke and his dog wants in with the incumbents wondering if this upsurge is going to have legs or is just a flash in the pants
Only time will tell In the mean time let me assure every one here that if the moth balled machines are ever put into production or a second shift instigated in some plants around the production capacity will certainly cover twice the existing demand or more
But who already in the game is going to invest more money when the return is nowhere near enough so as make it viable???
Any one in the game will sit this out that's for sure but for new comers well thats another story
Its a bit like a gold rush at present quite amazing and even though any one reading this may say what is this old fart talking about and why is he still in it let me say we do know all the twists and turns but we do do it as we all really love it Its like a drug addiction Strange as it sounds that's the only way I see it
Cheers
Chris
What kind of vinyl recorders are you talking about?opcode66 wrote:You want to press records. You just found out the realities regarding the costs of setting up a press. You now see that equipment doesn't exist to setup a small personal press with no facilities or boiler.
So, what can you do with 20K to get you closer to your goal. Well, my advice is that you purchase and setup 3 Vinyl Recorders and do Lathe Cuts.
With three VR's running you could realistically do short runs of 30 or 50 or 100 copies. Which sounds like the volume you were looking for to begin with. So, possibly consider setting up a production line for lathe cuts...
http://www.vinylrecorder.com/
Something like the Vestax?
I've been a professional ever since I stepped out of my teenage years and Id rather hire a professional to cut on a vms and press 300-500 copies rather than record one by one 100-300 records...
In my lifetime, if I ever get as close to doing part of this process my self that would be purchasing a lathe cutter and giving the acetate to a plant to make stamps and then to press.
-
Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
This is do-able. Better idea than setting up a plant.DJ ALX wrote:
In my lifetime, if I ever get as close to doing part of this process my self that would be purchasing a lathe cutter and giving the acetate to a plant to make stamps and then to press.
The Vestax was a failure so dont even mention it but yes, the "Vinyl Recorder" is something similar except that it works and it works well according to the people who own it.
More info on the Vinyl Recorder website : http://www.vinylrecorder.com
Another one is the Vinylium unit : http://www.vinylium.ch
Have you found those VMS70 lathes in Greece, yet?
You asked how to start producing copies for basically no money (20K is not much). I told you. You come back at me with a backhanded remark about professionalism. Not cool. I was only trying to help. You could hire someone to run the three lathes and produce up to 100 copies per day. That is a personal duplication plant for your budget. Not professional. But, exactly what you were asking for.DJ ALX wrote:I've been a professional ever since I stepped out of my teenage years and Id rather hire a professional to cut on a vms and press 300-500 copies rather than record one by one 100-300 records...
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Hey not having good every day use, common understanding or the nuances of a second language can be a bit disturbing
I can vouch of the fact that people who speak read and write excellent English have difficulty expressing themselves or getting the gist of what's been said or written
They will immediately translate it in their own tongue
I don't think the reply meant any offence
Thinking in one language while translating in your head so as to to write in another is fraught with possible misunderstandings
I think is the case here
Well I have seen it here so many times, take no offence, I have learnt to read between the lines rather than verbatim
Been trio-lingual myself I can comfortably say that it is the case
No offence at all was meant in reply Todd, add, no Offence intended for the poster Valantis either
Cheers
PS: The Mitsubishi Starion some years ago was supposed to be called by a US based marketing team the Stallion
The motor car come out of production with decals insignia manuals etc
It was called Starion
The Japanese thought that since they always pronounce L as an R it was a Mistake so they corrected it .
It gets worse Another Car they produce is/was the Pajero
It means a wank/masturbate in Spanish slang
So they called it Montero for some Spanish speaking Markets
I can vouch of the fact that people who speak read and write excellent English have difficulty expressing themselves or getting the gist of what's been said or written
They will immediately translate it in their own tongue
I don't think the reply meant any offence
Thinking in one language while translating in your head so as to to write in another is fraught with possible misunderstandings
I think is the case here
Well I have seen it here so many times, take no offence, I have learnt to read between the lines rather than verbatim
Been trio-lingual myself I can comfortably say that it is the case
No offence at all was meant in reply Todd, add, no Offence intended for the poster Valantis either
Cheers
PS: The Mitsubishi Starion some years ago was supposed to be called by a US based marketing team the Stallion
The motor car come out of production with decals insignia manuals etc
It was called Starion
The Japanese thought that since they always pronounce L as an R it was a Mistake so they corrected it .
It gets worse Another Car they produce is/was the Pajero
It means a wank/masturbate in Spanish slang
So they called it Montero for some Spanish speaking Markets
Chris
@ opcode i don't really think 3 recorders to cut those quantities are the best idea. just imagine how long you would need to cut 300 records for example. and we dont wanna talk about the headache you get as well. i don't think anyone is able to cut on 3 lathes at once. you should know you cut on a vms right? ok let's say ther are 20 min on each side of the record.so 40 min in total. you would need then 66 hours to cut the records without having a break. it's not worth to cut a record for 10 bucks as we all know. so let's say you pay someone 10 bucks an hour which is not exactly a lot you would have to pay 660 (wage) +1000 (discs) + 300 (1 Stylus, best case) that's already 1900 dollars.
you can get that quantity pressed in a plant, it's gonna be cheaper & better soundquality. don't you agree? cheers
you can get that quantity pressed in a plant, it's gonna be cheaper & better soundquality. don't you agree? cheers
CD4cutter was just telling me about multiple cuts happening with paralleled VMS lathes. This way, multiple lacquer masters could be made for regional pressings.
R. Morris is pictured in front of a bevy of Western Electric lathes on the cover of his book. They all have vacuum chip pickup, so, he could have run them in parallel without having to run around the room with a paint brush.
- Per Al'el
R. Morris is pictured in front of a bevy of Western Electric lathes on the cover of his book. They all have vacuum chip pickup, so, he could have run them in parallel without having to run around the room with a paint brush.
- Per Al'el
yeah that might be possible but just imagine how you would have to jump around on three lathes at the same time? with a vinylrecorder? that thing doesn't even have vacuum to suck down the disc. i cant really see this happening... anyway this is way to expensive anyway i didn't even add the money you wanna make out of it though.
-
Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact: