What Happened To All These Record Presses?

[Aussie0zborn]

The answer to my question is ofcourse obvious - few people saw the need to keep vinyl record presses in case of a resurgence and now nobody can find presses when they want them. So how many were out there and how many are there now? Please add any information you have.

ALPHA TOOLEX

In announcing the release of their automatic 7" press in June 1977, Toolex Alpha's Managing Director stated that they had sold 135 automatic 12" presses in the three years since its introduction in 1974, in addition to 900 semi-automatic presses. Alpha's last delivery of auto presses was said to be those delivered to Melodiya USSR in 1986 so the number of automatic presses sold between 1974 and 1986 is anybody's guess. Just by guessing, I would say only about 83 automatic presses remain, and I would think about 21 semi-automatic presses.

Contrary to what you read on the internet, Alpha Toolex auto presses were used in the USA in respectable numbers. New players who don't know write whatever they like on their websites. QRP uses them today and prior to that Europadisk had two Toolex auto presses until its closure in 2005; a plant that got busted for illegal Rod Stewart records in Los Angeles in 1997 also had Toolex autos, as did another plant as seen in an 80s TV show where Sonny Bono plays a cop or a band manager busting a bootleg gang; and then ofcourse there was RCA in Minneapolis with a great number of Toolex presses.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=aCQEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT70&dq=alpha+toolex&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1xTzU4OiBIPe8AXJxYGoCg&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=alpha%20toolex&f=false

FABEL:

Fabeldis supplied equipment to over 100 plants. They had an installed base of more than 200 presses in the USA, almost 100 in Japan, 50 in their own factory in Belgium plus many others in Europe and Africa, and seven in Australia. Of all these Fabel presses, the only ones remaining are the one at URP and one in storage in Switzerland. [EDIT : plus one in Greece making a total of three].

http://books.google.com.au/books? id=dCkEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA52&dq=fabel+record+presses+japan&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-fLyU663LM3r8AXmwoGgCQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=fabel%20record%20presses%20japan&f=false


PHILIPS:

Not one Philips press is known to exist. [EDIT : only one in Greece]

TCS

TCS presses look like a copy of the Alpha Toolex semi-auto presses. Two are still in use today at Phonopress Italy.

AMERICAN PRESSES:

Of all the American press brands, the least number in existence appears to be Hamilton, with Lened and SMT being the most in current use. Surprisingly, Finebilt presses keep popping up and a rough count would suggest there are probably some 30 in use today, two for sale in Europe right now and a handful in Jamaica.

To Be Continued....

[Steve E.]

Wow. Thank you!

[Aussie0zborn]

Taunus Ton Technik (TTT)

TTT was a German company who made a range of equipment for the industry, including presses, galvanics and finishing equipment. Their customers included PolyGram, CBS and Teldec which later became Warner Music Manufacturing Europe.

Whether their automatic press is just a re-badged Hamilton machine or a TTT press with Hamilton automation is often debated. According to the son of the Hamilton guy, Hamilton supplied the automation to TTT under license and TTT then bolted it onto their German-made presses.

Today, TTT presses are used by Record Industry, Holland (30 presses plus 12 in storage for future use).
There is one in Russia at Ultra Production.
The other handful (was it six???) that came out of Vinylium Belgium and sold to Korea have yet to surface. These machines were originally installed at PolyGram Austria.

In total, it looks like only 49 TTT auto presses remain plus 6 manual presses at GZ Media, Czech Republic. Not a great number by any means.

[klikli_ska]

Two Finebilts here, in Spain.

[mossboss]

So here are some more information for any on interested

Taunus Ton Technik (TTT)

TTT was a German company who made a range of equipment for the industry, including presses, galvanics and finishing equipment. Their customers included PolyGram, CBS and Teldec which later became Warner Music Manufacturing Europe.

TTT presses where made in the USA
Rob at RPA can testify to that
He is the son of the founder of Hamilton
At a recent Visit to GZ and Talking to one of the supervisors there he said
These are Excellent German presses
I laughed out aloud
Than I did said "Really Good German presses! They are American made mate"
He than said "I often wondered why the had imperial threads on them, Germans do not use imperial screw nuts or bolts Now I know Interesting

Whether their automatic press is just a re-badged Hamilton machine or a TTT press with Hamilton automation is often debated. According to the son of the Hamilton guy, Hamilton supplied the automation to TTT under license and TTT then bolted it onto their German-made presses.

Read above There if there is debate about it Just misinformation spread by people NOT in the know

Today, TTT presses are used by Record Industry, Holland (30 presses plus 12 in storage for future use).
There is one in Russia at Ultra Production.
The other handful (was it six???) that came out of Vinylium Belgium and sold to Korea have yet to surface. These machines were originally installed at PolyGram Austria.

In total, it looks like only 49 TTT auto presses remain plus 6 manual presses at GZ Media, Czech Republic. Not a great number by any means.
GZ has 24 of these machines Not 6

Cheers
From the Know it All smart Ass

[flozki]

nope TTT's where german
at least the later ones. we had 7 of those.
all metric screws. all european pneumatic.
also i visited the company it was still existing around 2000/2004
also we had drawings all in metric units made by TTT

as i understand they first imported a first batch and automated those us presses
then they made their own.

[mossboss]

Well This is very Interesting indeed Flo
Most TTT presses I have been involved with, all had imperial threads, including the ones at GZ, some units double manuals that where here in the UK found they way over the continent 4 double presses
Only yesterday talking with Bruce the man who installed them, some ex Hungaratron and another pair ex Bulgartron he confirmed they where USA made
They cannibalized one to get the others going it went to scrap as it was almost a skeleton
I have a photo of them on my desk
According to Bob at RPA they supplied TTT with many many presses over many years
May be it was until the death of the Hamilton owner and MD, than the closure of the Hamilton concern shortly after
I was told:
There was two divisions at Hamilton
One that made presses, the other made consumables, moulds, bushes, pins, spares, etc
The press manufacturing side was sold off to another owner, who met an early death
The consumable side is still running as RPA by the founder's son Bob
If TTT did did make they own it must have been after Hamilton went into demise, obviously not worried about the Hamilton automation patents, they are exactly the same, and patents where still in force not having run out
Besides, I did not think that TTT had any heavy fabrication facilities
They definitely made galvanic plants, we had them, still there at PP, polishers, back sanders, centering machines with a lever punch and a WERKE Profil Projector, I have one here
The more common is the Sibert machine
Also, they sold a stamper former made by Krauss Mafei which was badged TTT
I had two of them one TTT the other Krauss both exactly the same, Different colour still have one of them Need to check what badge it has. He He
May be it is the case, however putting these presses side to side, a TTT and a Hamilton, both autos, it is very hard to tell them apart, the same with the manual presses, colour is different
I suppose if it is a good thing stick to it
On another point
Alpha Toolex Auto Presses mostly have metric threads but not everywhere
They have British Standard O rings, these are depicted in the drawings in metric sizes like 23.47 x 2.62 mm and crazy sizes like 6.07 x 1.78 mm
Besides the Hawe Hydraulics used in them where made in the USA all imperial treads
It gets better
Kay pneumatics solenoid valves, made in the UK at Dunstable, were used, imperial threads,
AB Pneumatics, metric cylinders made in Sweden, was installed on them
So metric drawings may not necessarily reflect source of machine, we found out many years ago
It is quite obvious looking at some drawings
I am not doubting what you are telling us here
However
I am curious to know if they really did made these Hamilton copies, themselves, or they had someone else manufacturing them for them in Germany
Or may be they where made in the USA with metric threads? Nothing that hard
Be interesting to know exactly when they did, as in the year that be giving us a clue or two any way
Not that it really matters that much, but for the historical aspect it be nice to know the real story, as it seems a bit confusing to me at least, any way
Best
Cheers
Chris

[mossboss]

Here are some numbers
No names or locations
Alpha Autos
81 units
Seen at locations by myself 65 units
Alpha Manuals
36 units
Seen at location by myself 32
Fabel
One machine in refurbishment stage 2 extruders
Known location
Philips
One auto under refurbishment at present
Known location
TCS
2 at pp another 3 elsewhere plus 2 under refurbishment
Known locations
American presses
Need to do a count but actual machines I know location and seen with my eyes
Hamilton's
Well here is a dilemma TTT or Hamilton's He He
12 units
Hamilton 100% according to the badge
Others can chip in on the balance
Leneds
11 known locations and seen USA, EU, AU, plus a stack of others elsewhere people can add
Not counting what the net is telling us These numbers are verified directly
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

EMI Type 1400 Automatic Press

From the book "Hayes on Record") published by EMI in 1992:

"It's worth pointing out that despite these problems, the new Uxbridge Road plant was pressing more records per month than the old plant, so this gives an indication of the demand levels, given the new plant could still only meet about 55% of the demand.

Moving forward, it wasn't long before Oord realised that even Uxbridge, with its 112 presses (increased to 120 by 1977), couldn't keep up with demand; by late 1973 he announced plans for another factory, but alas, due to planning and approval problems it fell through."

Of the 112 presses in 1977 there were 76 Type 1400 presses. Another 74 more were made for export to EMI plants around the world. All presses were scrapped when EMI shut down the UK vinyl plant. They re-opened the vinyl plant by getting presses from their overseas factories and eventually sold the plant to The Vinyl Factory.

So out of 150 or 158 EMI Type 1400 presses, how many of these remain?? I would say less than ten, but again, I'm only guessing.

[mossboss]

Survival rate of Alpha Autos is certainly much higher than the manual presses
There was over 1000 manuals built if one takes serial no's into account the earliest one I have seen has a date of 1967 cast into the top platen
It seems that at some later date the dating was stopped as the last 8 machines I deliberately looked for dates on them recently have none cast in them
I have seen one manual press with S/N past 1000 I have not seen any past 1100
Alpha did some excellent engineering as well as some strange things
Manual machines
As an example, in the manual machines, after they went from the "Telephone exchange" type of controller into a solid state style, all the printed circuit boards where effectively "home made" simply etched, besides they used all kinds of wires to interconnect the bits in the controller
No two are the same but they work exactly the same
Autos
In so far as Auto machines are concerned I have not seen any that even near S/N 400
From quite a number seen around the place they hover with serial Numbers in the 1-300+ area
If one assumes some kind of sequential numbering system than it seems that about 350?? odd auto machines would be a fair guess
So to still have around 70-80 odd in production is kind of pleasing around the 25%
Strange things there as well
They used the standard off the shelve Telefrang system 68 euro cards in a standard eurocard cage for the controller
3 I/O cards as well as the standard Telefrang CPU cards for the controller with the addition of a front panel as we know it
The program sits on a 16 K Rom
The had the front panel 2 PCB's switches and display made for them to suit the machine functions
Up until around the 200 odd serial number the interface cards behind the front panel where also "home made" etched rough kind of cards than at around the time of the introduction of the 702 it seems that the cards where "factory made" nice thick boards with straight lines
Also commonality between controllers switchable either 1202 or 702 was introduced as well
I can say this much, for the small number of machines made say 300 odd units there are quite a few differences in their wiring as well as a few versions of the controller firmware
In some machines only 8 control steps are accessible in others 16 and with the machines which were sold with the auto sleeving system up to 24 steps are accessible with the addition of another 16K rom chip, another CPU card, as well as 2 extra I/O cards from the 3 used on a standard machine making a total of 5
Quite a nightmare if one has to sort them out to get them working again
All the same great machines and brilliant engineering apart from the controller which even though quite reliable its a nightmare when it goes down Having said that for a very early PLC system on a record press when everyone else used timers wired up in series it functioned extremely
One can adjust timing on the fly without interrupting the program, effective instantly also bulletproof most machines around are still running with them
As as good as any high end plc available today
By the way Tellefrang is still around but they certainly do not want to know about System 68 cards
Cheers

[JLenahan2]

Here is an interesting story for you trolls in regards to the Fabel presses. When John Dunn contacted Bill Westerman to have the SMT developed, he created a venture, DDL, for this purpose (standing for Dunn, Dufour, and Lenahan). My great-grandfather, Harry Lenahan of Lenahan Associates, was one of the 3 major suppliers of PVC compound for the industry, along side Tenneco and Keysor and the exclusive supplier to United and a common investor in industry ventures such as DDL and the Miller International Schallplatten facility. When the Fabel press was released, Harry wanted DDL to purchase a large quantity and offer them as a additional type of press available in the catalogue, but John and Norm thought it would hinder sales of the SMT which was being installed in plants all across the country. As a result, Lenahan sold his stake in DDL back to Dunn (who in turn gave it to Westerman for his efforts in developing the SMT, forming DDW which some people might remember) and purchased 200 of these presses and had them stored in containers at the Philadelphia port, picking units as they were sold. Every last press was sold, and it saddens me that there are only 2 of these machines left that people know of and it is ironic United ended up with one. It is interesting Aussie was able to dig up the exact number of units that were sold here in the states.

Here is a link to a Cash Box ad from 1964 where we were advertising these units for sale.
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Business/Music/Archive-Cash-Box-IDX/60s/1964/CB-1964-08-15-OCR-Page-0096.pdf#search=%22lenahan%22

[Aussie0zborn]

Hi JL and welcome to the forum. Thanks for that interesting piece of history.

Since I created this post, we have found one more Fabel press so there are a total of three Fabel presses remaining that we know of -the one at a United and the two in Europe being primed for refurbishment.

You know the old players in the industry - can I assume you worked in the business? I don't suppose you have a formula for vinyl compound in the archives somewhere?

Can you tell us about Miller Schallplaten that you mentioned?

[JLenahan2]

Well Lenahan owned the 101 Strings Orchestra before it was sold to Alshire Int. and Miller had produced the the Hamburg series in the late 50s and a few other German releases, so this is how they met. From his time spent in Germany, Miller noticed there was too high a price for the quality offered in the German market thus, Schallplaten was his brainchild to offer quality discs at a great price. Schallplaten was one of the first full service plants in Germany that did everything from cutting, to plating, to pressing all under one roof. I was told by the daugher of Harold Kirsten (GM of this facility) that Lenahan indeed did serve as a financier and consultant in getting the facility up an running. Here is a billboard article from 1966 in which a time capsule was placed in the cornerstone of the Schallplaten plant during construction that shows Lenahan, Miller, and Kirsten among others (picture on page 52)

https://books.google.com/books?id=iiIEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA52&dq=Billboard+Lenahan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj86sne0NnLAhWJGR4KHceWCo8Q6AEIKzAE#v=onepage&q=Billboard%20Lenahan&f=false

I think this was the extent of Lenahan's contribution to the Schallplaten facility.

I am the 4th generation, so I was too young to have worked for the company. My father was the last person who was involved in the industry as Lenahan closed its doors in the late 80s. I do have a formula, but am going to keep my cards close to my chest as we are considering setting up a line to give TPC a run for thier money.

John

[Aussie0zborn]

its surprising what you find when you're not looking.... the Fabel technical documentation.
Surprisingly, this is a 140 ton press (yes, one hundred and forty).

[dubcutter89]

its surprising what you find when you're not looking.... the Fabel technical documentation.

yes it is - and sharing is caring

Cheers
Lukas

[grae.area]

2 Leneds and 7 Hamiltons here at wmfono.

[tape]

how about Lyrec?

[Aussie0zborn]

how about Lyrec?

Lyrec never made record presses.