Label Problem

[DR_faust]

Hello to all members,
let me introduce quickly: Ma Name is Hannes, we founded this year our Company AUSTROVINYL from Zero. Cutting, electro-plating, pressing -->having all in "one house" is the goal!
Now we're proud owners of a brand new Pheenix Alpha press and we started testpressing 3 weeks ago.
more pics etc.. http://www.facebook.com/austrovinyl http://www.austrovinyl.at

Here is the Problem:
Eventhough we dry the labels for hours in a laboratory oven with 85 degrees, the color of the labels sticks on the stampers! (..it takes me allways 20 minutes to clean them.. )
Pressing with White Labels is no Problem at all.. -nice, smooth results!
We tried labels from a different printing company aswell, -same problem!

I'm very thankful for every tip and trick from you guys!!

P.S.: This forum is great, I love it!

[drdub]

hallo hannes,
ich kann mich erinnern, dass der andyb schon mal das gleiche problem hatte.
ich glaub fast dass du mit der such hier was findest...

lg mex

ps: meld dich mal bei uns!

[Aussie0zborn]

Try this.....

Matte Art Paper 120gsm.
Standard offset ink (rubber based).
Do not use glossy paper.
Avoid metallic colours or you will have the same problem.

[DR_faust]

Thanks AussieOzborn for your detailed answer!!

@drdub: hab schon gesucht..

[salnikov]

Hello and welcome.

Do you perform a correct sanding of the stampers center?

Cordially.

[DR_faust]

Problem solved!
Thanks to a good friend of mine!
He is an engineer in the woods-industries, so he knows about drying wood (paper) and it's behaviour..
We experimented a little.. voilà!
It's always good to have friends in all kind of businesses

[Aussie0zborn]

How about sharing the solution?
It's good to ask for help here but sometimes you need to contribute as well.

[audiosteam]

What Aussie said.. would you mind sharing the solution here?

[vondeu]

Hi there,

Because there is no response from the topic starter, i’m willing to give some clarification.

We are also running on the Pheenix Alpha AD12 and have a labratory oven. In the first days that we started we also had some problems with ‘sticking’ labels, but we solved it quite quick. In my opinion 85 degrees is a little bit on the low side of temprature.

Our settings:

Whitelabels: 20 minutes on 115 degrees.
FC/1C/Black labels: At leest 3,5 hours on 115 degrees.

You can speed up the whole procedure by increasing the temptrature, but in my opinion its not good for the desired quality of the labels/colours. Try to work with a (safe) timer so that you dont loose energy and that the labels are ready to be pressed when begin your first run. You can also blow between the labels with a air gun so that you are sure that every label is devided and dry enough.

Cheers and have a good week,

Thomas

[andybee]

as we have different measurments of temperatur, I think, you are talking about celsius!

[vondeu]

Oof, my bad. You are right Andy, i mean celcius

Greetings,
Thomas

[DR_faust]

Hi guys, sorry about my "not replying" -busy as allways!

Back to the topic:

As I wrote before, a friend of mine helped me researching on this topic.

As an engineer in the wood/paper industries he has a lot of knowledge.
We used a very, very fine balance to measure the humitity in the paper. Heaaah???
Well, we took a stack of Labels on the balance and masured the weight.
Then we but them into our Laboratory oven and let them dry for one hour.
Then we measured the weight again and but them back into the oven for an other hour to dry, and so on..
After a couple of rounds drying and masureing (and beer) we could see how the weight got less and less until there was no difference at all, till round 5 and 6.
If you would draw it in a diagramm, the curve got flatter and flatter until it was flattened out.
So we knew the paper is dry after 5 hours in the oven, using 110 degrees celsius.

After a year of experience, I dry the Labels minimum 4 hours (white/black-white) or 6 hours (colored labels) with 110 degrees.
Mostly I but them into the oven over night with 100 degrees celsius, -then they are perfectly dry!
Then I pack them into airthight bags and let them cool down to room temperature(!) and store them into airthight plastic boxes.
While pressing, I use an Exsiccator and take only a very small stack of Labels (a half a centimeter max.)
That's about it

With regards
Hannes

[Aussie0zborn]

Your drying time is too long. Best results: 1 hour @ 160-165° Celsius.

The EMI instruction manuals include two books on label problems:

[untitledthe]

That looks like a great book.
Offcourse you probably cant get a hold of one nowadays?

[Aussie0zborn]

Yes, you couldn't even get hold of it in the old days. Strictly an internal document.