Photos of Carriage Cleaning VMS-70

[concretecowboy71]

With the help of a machinist/mechanical engineer, I have taken apart the carriage of my VMS-70 and discovered a bunch of small issues that needed some attention.

Here is a link to some photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cowboy71/sets/72157625742132811/

I thought I would share in case anybody else ever has the same problems I have had. It is not too difficult with patience and the right tools.

[andybee]

yes, good job!
I hope, your lathe works again

[opcode66]

Great pics. Thanks for those! And you say it wasn't that hard to do. Makes me want to clean mine out at some point.

Did the cleaning fix your issue?

[concretecowboy71]

Putting it back together tomorrow AM.

Our feeling is that all of the small issues built up to a bigger total problem.

I found the needed bearing for the thrust bearing at McMaster Carr

Part Number: 9292K41

Got to by a bag of 50, but I am set for the rest of my life. I measured a bunch with machinist calipers and they were dead on 6mm.

Chris Muth told me he does a tear down like this one a year to clean the carriage, now I see why!

@opcode66 -- You sound like you have some tech skills, so I would not be afraid of this job. There are a couple small tricks, so feel free to message me if you decide to do it and I will give you a detailed run-down.

[mossboss]

Great Photos Thanks
If you get your bag of fifty pick ones that have no lateral play as that is what is important
As I already knew the cariage table is hardly worn as the diamond like patern is still quite visible
The flat spot on the balls is caused by lack of lubrication
It seems to me that what you refer to lacquer build up is more likely dry oil residues
As a guess it sat around a warm area/hot long enough for the oil to dry up or the additives to the oil at least
The half nut is dirty but not worn out which is a good thing for you mate
Now you and the rest know the importance if oiling these areas
Once assembled check the runout groove location on a couple of scrap lacquers as the whole assembly would have moved slightly from its original location which would have an effect on that
Good luck

[concretecowboy71]

Mossboss, you rule.

We put the thing back together and sure enough, it would not cut a lead out. We loosened the mounting plate, readjusted and BINGO, back on track.

Right now the lathe seems to be running well, we cut several lacquers with no issues.

I am keeping my fingers crossed!

[opcode66]

Nice!

[mossboss]

Hey Concrete man
How the fark did I know that Ha Ha must have been looking into a crystal ball
Seriously lts about right every time you touch that area you have problems with lock grooves
I thought Id alert you to this as it can take ages to figure out what on earth has gone wrong as it all seems A ok and it just will not go and do a lock
By the way if you want to get a bit more space on a 7" move the whole plate with all the micro's on it until you are happy
With careful adjustments you can get another half a minute or so unless yours has been moved already
It was not uncommon to do that on the Neuman's not for longer play times but so as to trigger the end of play mechanism for some juke boxes made in days gone past that did not stick to the "rules" which where never written down any way just like a lot of things in the Vinyl Game
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

Reading this post again makes me wonder once again what it means to buy a "fully re-conditioned lathe" from the great man, which no doubt he is but this lathe was not fully re-conditioned if it has so much build-up of gunk.

I'm not being disrespectful or inflammatory as I know his reputation is stellar but do I think someone is profiteering on the basis of his reputation.

What a disappointment that you had to go through this so soon with a fully reconditioned lathe but good to see that you nailed it in such a short time - that's a real credit to you and the spirit of disc cutters today who all chipped in.

[petermontg]

Just curious how you removed rust build up.

Was it a case of, rubbing in some oil clean/loosen rust clean again and rub in some more oil.

Regards
Peter

[concretecowboy71]

@Aussie

I don't feel that anybody was profiteering from my transaction. Actually I have far surpassed any income potential that I expected from this machine.

I consider Al my friend as well as a business associate.

Any level of frustration I might have had was leveled by the hours he has spent on the phone with me and how much I learned about my lathe through this process.

@Peter

We used a flat sharpening stone used for sharpening knives. We laid it flat on the surfaces with some machine oil and LIGHTLY rubbed it back and forth to take the junk off. It won't leave behind junk like steel wool will.

The guy who helped me has 30 years of working with industrial machines such as CNC lathes and was invaluable in the cleaning process.

[opcode66]

I agree with Concrete. I feel I got a lot of value out of purchasing a lathe from Al. Not only do I feel confident in it's physical behavior, but I know that the electronics are functioning beautifully.

And, I dare any of you to name me a source of record cutting gear that comes with a customer service line that I can call and actually speak with someone about my gear. Can't call Souri. Can't call Vinylium. Can't call Scully. Can't call Presto. But, you can call Al...

[Aussie0zborn]

Guys, I was afraid this would stir a reaction but as I said I was not being disrespectful - just disappointed. And nor am I saying anyone made a bad purchase - far from it. You bought the best lathe ever made and you should be proud of what you've got and what you have achieved.

My point is that a fully re-conditioned lathe means a fully re-conditioned lathe... not just re-capped electronics. And after seeing Clint's photos am I not correct to think that the seller is not fully reconditioning the lathes that he sells at a premium?

Seriously guys, my precision engineer friend has a company that services industrial lathes - they pull them apart and recondition them to the original spec. Some are over 50 years old weighing quite a few tons and take 3 months to complete. They use a grinding machine that is as tall as your house. If you opened up one of their re-conditioned lathes you wouldn't find bearings with flat spots, dried oil/varnish or a sled with surface rust. That's what you call a re-conditioned lathe.

Same with re-conditioned printing presses and re-conditioned tape recorders - have you ever seen a re-conditioned tape recorder with an obvious flat spot on the capstan?

Again, no disrespect is intended, I'm just stating the obvious.

If I'm not understanding plain English correctly, please let me know.

[audadvnc]

My point is that a fully re-conditioned lathe means a fully re-conditioned lathe...

In some American schools you can get on the honor roll just by showing up to class - actually doing your homework is optional, and often unnecessary to get an "A".

(edit for clarification)
Is that "merit inflation" spreading across society? Is what used to be considered shoddy work considered perfectly okay now? If the above situation sold (and billed) as a complete refurb, is a partially reconditioned lathe "A" work? (I don't know the circumstances, bearings and other fragile items can get damaged in shipping, so the flat bearing in question may be just a case of bad luck).

OTOH when is enough? How deep into the machine do you need to go? That question haunts me daily as I attempt to refurb the lathe at my studio. I can scrub and shine the parts until I can eat off them, but there will always be the next rust spot, the next chip in a screw thread, the next old buzzing capacitor, blown transistor, fizzing resistor. I'll get to them when I can - but I need that machine ASAP, it has to go online, and the lacquers have to be cut if I expect this gig to fly. Maintenance perfection on old machines is a mirage, perhaps impossible to attain.

[concretecowboy71]

My intention for posting the pictures last year was to help inform other lathe owners about the machine they own, not as a treatise about reconditioning.

The market is supply and demand. Right now, there is a lot of demand for these items and people are willing to pay a premium. At the time I needed my machine there were none in the market and I was not going to buy something sight unseen from overseas.

I really don't want to argue over this point, that is not really my style.

Aussie, I appreciate your point of view and understand your concerns, but as opcode mentioned, there are tons of conversations on this board about people's business practices and to me those conversations are the least fun!

@Audadvnc:

Before you spout off about somebody in some condescending, cryptic manner, you should learn more about them first.

If you knew the real history of the man, you would not write from such an uninformed position.

[petermontg]

Cheers man.

Audadvnc:

Id be careful how to refer to this chap. Am sure someday down the line your going to want his help, and am sure he throws an eye across this forum from time to time.

Last thing you want to do is alienate your service chaps. especially when there's f*ck all about with his knowledge.

However, everybody is entitled to their opinions. personally i think the industry would be slightly lost without him and doing something like replace bearings and removing rust give you a little more insight and knowledge to your lathe. Am a fence sitter on this, but id rather be told or see what needs to be done so i can prepare for the work ahead if needs be.

Edit: I know your not trying to cause offence to this chap. Hang around, you will find how much of a chancer/cheat he is not.

[audadvnc]

Thanks concretecowboy and petermontg, I'll try to keep your points in mind. You're right of course about taking cheap shots at people I don't know about, and for that I apologize. We're all doing what we can to keep our heads above water and money in the till. Instead of focusing on any person's failings, I am commenting on the human condition. From the above descriptions it sounds like a pattern we've become all too familiar with in the modern world. We can all do better if we can remember and honor the passion that brought us to this field in the first place.