DAC Converters.

[gold]

No need to feel sorry for me. I know how to change it if I want to. I don't. I've done okay with it set up this way. When you get your pitch and depth system going, do some experiments and report back. The Zuma manual wants you to set the maximum pitch at 600LPI to calibrate it. I ignore this and set it up so it works.

Spoken word and something like classical with long ppp passages and an occasional fff are an exception. Try it with a dance bass drum and see how far you get.

The Grundy lathes that were set up by me are this way. That's how Al set them up too. I haven't heard any complaints about it. I believe Josh has his set up this way too. Most that I have run into in the field are set up about like this because cutting less than a 2 mil groove is asking for trouble and so is using less than a half mil of land.

[Serif]

...Of course I'm talking about a rare occasion! That's why I am talking about the additional attenuators.. Not only is there possibly musical program which is quite quiet and long playing, there is the over-ride switch for Expansion which makes for rather versatile pitch hoarding.)


The thing about cutting at the higher Base Pitch with manual over-ride is that there is an additional switch for Expansion with an additional continuously variable potentiometer for setting the "jump to" feed. When you know there is a long Ambient Eno-esque passage of spaced out Electronica, say, with only the odd blip and no bass for 1:20, say, then you know there is no reason to hurry to the slow part of the disc if the Base Pitch can be set high and be automated for avoiding little swells while controlling the fortes and fortissimos manually in the switched Expansion mode. Faster feed only when needed is the theory which is not unique to this troll.



- Andrew

[THD]

I got a Scully LS-76 and had no problem cutting the 4.33 piece at 600 LPI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E&feature=fvwrel

some prefer it on piano:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2zcLBr_VM&feature=related

Just control the volume of the coughing, edit away the clapping and comments and your fine...

PS! Make sure your stylus heat is correct!

[gold]

You are floating around saying first that 600 LPI Base Pitch can't be done and then, if it can, it's rare... (Of course I'm talking about a rare occasion! That's why I am talking about the additional attenuators.. Not only is there possibly musical program which is quite quiet and long playing, there is the over-ride switch for Expansion which makes for rather versatile pitch hoarding.)

I reread what I wrote and I don't think I said cutting at 600LPI couldn't be done. I said it shouldn't be used as a base pitch. Of course you can set up the machine this way and add stuff to make it work better for 99% percent of the sides.

If you are interested in doing super tweaky audiophile classical stuff then it very well might make sense to set up your machine for 600LPI base pitch. Your system would be great for that as the Ortofon is supposed to sound better than the Neumann. It just can't take level.

Hi Fi is not for the feint of heart. I don't begrudge you your conservatism.

I think Hi-Fi is a good plan for your system. I'd say I'm practical rather than conservative. I like good sound and spend a lot of time in research and development.

[Serif]

I reread what I wrote and I don't think I said cutting at 600LPI couldn't be done. I said it shouldn't be used as a base pitch. Of course you can set up the machine this way and add stuff to make it work better for 99% percent of the sides.

A disaster for music at 600 LPI would be to use it as a Fixed Pitch. Although I haven't tried cutting the Concerto for Fly Wing Ensemble, conducted by Arthur Fieldmaus.

If you are interested in doing super tweaky audiophile classical stuff then it very well might make sense to set up your machine for 600LPI base pitch.

Alas, I am not about to calibrate to 600 LPI, and what I have been trying to discuss in each of these posts in this thread is _not_ that I think it's a good calibration target... Au contraire, it's a lousy target for calibrating to ... therefore, one needs to have the extra attenuators for accommodating the unusual sides on an otherwise conventionally calibrated machine.

Your system would be great for that as the Ortofon is supposed to sound better than the Neumann. It just can't take level.

Mike Fuller had no problem using ONLY Ortofon amps and cutterheads on Disco ("Do Ya Think I'm Sexy" was too quiet???) and Miami Bass using the DSS 821, which is the same cutterhead I have just added as a spare to the DSS 731, which hasn't yet been used. Furthermore, the DSS 732, I have already been using with 808 boom and drum machine music is quite capable of recording music as loud as all the other LP records in my collection. In fact, they are all nearly recorded at the same level as confirmed by oscilloscope.

The 821 is going to be used for loudish 7" singles.

...I think Hi-Fi is a good plan for your system. I'd say I'm practical rather than conservative. I like good sound and spend a lot of time in research and development.

I have been cutting good-sounding Electronica, and will soon add Hardcore Punk, plenty of Rap, Rock, and Reggae, but I plan on doing it with a compatibly stingy use of land.

Servus,
- Andrew

[jjgolden]

....Todd, did you find your answer?

[concretecowboy71]

All of this is pretty interesting.

After cutting 2000 albums I have never had to use a base pitch as high as 600lpi.

Am I missing something important? I have cut 32 minute sides of acoustic music and still did not have to go that high even with a stock P/D system.

I guess my practicality outweighs any desire for a system calibrated for something that I will never cut.

I am also interested in Hi-fi vs. Low-fi. If the end client/user is happy with his/her product, who defines what is "hi-fi"

Also, who puts classical on vinyl these days?

[jjgolden]

Exactly, I was thinking the same thing. What's Hi-Fi. What's audiophile?
I define Audiophile as ANYONE who is listening to audio/music quality on a conscious/critical level regardless of they're system.

There are so many ways the neumann lathes use of space can be configured, it's just a matter of a proper initial setup and adapting from there.
If you're getting overcuts, make an adjustment so you don't.
Also, there's the INST. pot in the programmers... Mine was way out of calibration when I got it... i.e. a reading of 400LPI left about 3 mil land.
So it's possible that one persons 400LPI may be someone else's 450 etc....

JJG

[gold]

Exactly, I was thinking the same thing. What's Hi-Fi. What's audiophile?

I meant it more as a marketing strategy. Something like "Serif Sound uses the Ortofon cutting system which is the best sounding cutting system ever produced." Use the uniqueness of the system to your advantage.

I think audiophile is more of a state of mind and badge of honor for those who think that way. I have no contact with the audiophile world and like it that way. I don't keep tabs on that market but I'm sure there is some work. And some is all you need to pay the rent.

I was not looking for an argument. I was just trying relay my experience. God speed.

[concretecowboy71]

I don't think anybody wants to argue about this and it points out a small divide between all of us that I have found fascinating since I got involved.

There are guys who cut all day, everyday and there are guys that look at these machines as a puzzle to figure out.

I am glad both parties exist and I fall into the cut all day, every day category. I need my machine to run each day pretty much the same as it did the day before in a manner that assures that I can cut without spending a ton of time making any other adjustments.

With all the other day to day issues that can happen (bad stampers, out of phase masters, clients who think your lathe might have "slowed" down their music) I have very little time to delve into the minutia of the lathe itself BUT I am glad the more technical guys are out there working on these problems and have answers to questions I do not have.

I strive to make my clients as happy as they can be as I think we all do. I don't have the luxury to cut hi-fi jobs only...a lot of what comes through the door is sub-lo-fi but those are the clients that will keep vinyl alive so we can all pay the rent.

[jjgolden]

Hi Paul,

Sorry if that sounded like it was directed to you. I was inspired to bring that up after reading the dialogue just as a point of interest. I understand your point to Serif now.

More on this topic, It seems like "audiophiles" are not just into the steely Dan type records anymore. There's some new rock/pop/alt etc. type stuff that has been labeled "Audiophile" by some. I guess it's a matter of perception and interpretation or a state of mind as you said.
For me, the word Audiophile used to conjure up images of insane voodoo home hi-fi set ups and impossible to please clients.
Which may be true, but I feel there's another sub generation developing out there who are into the sound of vinyl fidelity and the hobby of it and not so much the tweaked out minutia.
When they say the record sounds great etc, that says "new-audiophile" to me because they were listening to the sound or felt it somehow.
When someone say's, "I added some $300 pointy feet to the bottom of my turntable and the clouds opened up", that doesn't mean much to me at all.

Disclaimer:
This post is not directed at anybody. It's just some thought transcribed to pixels.

JJG

[opcode66]

I wish I had more cutting work. It seems to be near impossible to just jump into the scene and get work. No one knows who I am. I was not known for standard studio mastering before I got a lathe. It is an uphill battle. Once I do cuts, people generally have come back. So, I know my product is good. I just need to do some better advertising I think.

The point is, until I get more work, this lathe is for my own personal cuts, and yes, it is a fantastic puzzle box...

FYI, trolls, I am going to post a new video with a demo of my Tape Remote Start to MMC command via MIDI to start DAW playback after lead in groove. So, cutting a side is entirely automated for me now (start of playback, Echo, Time and Fast all automatic).

And, in a couple months we should have Beta 1 finished of my All Speed All Diameter PS box. Look for a video of that as well!

Finally, we are in the first phase of a project to use laser sawing to produce diamond styli. Promising so far!

[jjgolden]

Cool! I look forward to those!

JJG

[concretecowboy71]

@opcode

I certainly appreciate the work you have put in.

The half-nut project alone could be a life saver for a guy like me down the road.

My business plan needed my association with Gotta Groove to work right from the start. I feel good that I was in the right spot at the right time.

If I had started on my own, I would probably not be making a living from cutting records!

[gold]

It's hard to mention the word audiophile without stirring up trouble. Like Clint I need my system to run the same way everyday. That doesn't happen through laziness. Unlike many audiophiles I've met I put a great emphasis on ergonomics and reliability. I think a circuit that sounds glorious under lab conditions but is easily tripped up in use is bad design. If the cables make the unit sound different you need a new unit, not new cables.

I firmly believe one reason I'm busy is that the lathe always works, and works well. I would love to have a second system for experiments and wacky cuts. I don't have room at the moment but I have a cutterhead/VG66/Zuma laying in wait.

[opcode66]

Since I cut on my lathe, anything I do to it by design is easily undone. The design for the all in one plugger is exactly that. I can unplug it and put in one of my standard boxes and back to business as usual.

I've painstakingly reproduced a switchable circuit path equivalent of the PS box. When switched to a particular diameter and speed it is the exact equivalent of the circuit path in one of the standard boxes. They are really very simple designs (mostly either straight connections, resistors or capacitors). The only tricky part is are the Potentiometers/trimmers. I really wanted to go computer controlled but don't think I'll be able to. So, you will have a bank of trimmers. One row per speed to adjust the various adjustable parameters.

This box will be the launching point for my first round p/d comp. The first series will be simply a replacement of the 66 components with a computer program that will control LL, LV and V by replacing the signals from the cards with my own DAC gernerated voltages from my PS box.

[Angus McCarthy]

Finally, we are in the first phase of a project to use laser sawing to produce diamond styli. Promising so far!

This makes me far more excited than should be allowed.

[tragwag]

Finally, we are in the first phase of a project to use laser sawing to produce diamond styli. Promising so far!

This makes me far more excited than should be allowed.

backed!

[Serif]

Hi Paul,

Sorry if that sounded like it was directed to you. ...I understand your point to Serif now.

...
JJG

In spite of the incredulity which abounds, 800 LPI vintage Scully feedscrews and Zuma's 1.000 LPI land miser are all real. Furthermore, a high number of LPI was only half of the issue which is the actual topic of discussion - compensating attenuators, post console attenuation...

The contrary scenario is equally pertinent. For even if I want to cut Big Bass and/or LOUD with a feed that is faster than that Base LPI to which The Lathe automation has been calibrated, I'd have to use the extra attenuators in the automation signal path, after the main level controllers for Preview and Program, in order for the responses to the automation signals to result in sufficiently _goosed_ ramping - ramping that is accelerated beyond that which would result at the calibrated Base Pitch. The reason one can't simply boost the Preview stereo attenuator more than the Program is that the Left Program is _also_ one of the automation inputs. There would be an error in the control. By using separate extra attenuators for Feed and Depth, one can fine tune The Lathe to the program's unique cutting requirements.

I have never suggested one cut music at 600 LPI using a fixed pitch. Sorry I have had to defend my posts. (L:



- Andrew

[concretecowboy71]

I don't think anybody cutting on a VP lathe thought you were cutting a 600LPI fixed.

I am just curious about why you would choose that as your base pitch for VP cutting jobs.

Even the Neumann manual suggests calibrating the controller boxes at 400LPI. That is why I joined the conversation.

As a guy that is more of a technician rather than a lathe expert, I am always curious about what I don't know.

I was also curious how pitch relates to fidelity. That is why I questioned the definition of "hi-fi"

Do any cuts from digital sources qualify as hi-fi or is tape only the way to go for that designation?