LJ SCULLY LS 76 as good as a neuman vms 70?

[fraggle]

i mean should be possible to use a neumann head as well and same amps and stuff. anyone with experience?
cheers

[Nickou]

Yes , of course you can
You should contact Ivo from vinylium or Flozky , they have all the knowledge and experience to do that .

[fraggle]

yup i know that. the question is just if you can compare those two lathes?cheers

[Serif]

Don't get me wrong. I dig the old and wise Neumanns. But, The Lathe is technically a more "advanced" lathe than the VMS 70, since it was designed at least 6 years later. You should compare it to the VMS80. Takes Ortofon, Westrex, and Neumann heads. Any drive package can be used, of course, since the cutter head is really an extension of the cutter amp, rather than of the lathe in use. The LS-76 saddle can be adapted for floating and advance ball use - can even float the 3DII (talk to HRS).

Full tt revolution / 8-bit / high sample rate ADC look-ahead on board - updated 25 times per revolution with 5 speed changes per revolution - for the advance signals allows for better space economy than 0.6 revs. This rules out stock Studer preview machines - but MCI JH-110M works a treat - as do DACs. 600 LPI. At 33 1/3 rpm cutting speed, and 30 ips tape record/repro speed, there needs to be 54 inches of roll between the advance head and the program head. 1.8 seconds. Or you could digitize the program to delay it, but that wouldn't be up to Salt. ):

Computer-designed isolation mounts helps this 600-pound gorilla buck rumble. Wein-bridge oscillator with active phase-shifting network for each speed drives the tt's sleve-bearing motor rock steady - evidenced by led strobe. Nice 40 lb, 17" table. Mylar belt for tt rim. Mylar belt for feed pulley.

Nikon microscope and Ikegami monochromatic video monitor, standard. Nice Brooks-Mite flow reduction valve, just like VMS. Vacuum tube for tt is captive under the table (after 1977). No need to press, "Safe" when manually dropping head. Only cost half as much as Neumann ($125k ca. 1976).

Made by huddled-mass Americans. Used at Criteria. What's not to love?

Cuts? "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy," by Roderick Stewart, among many.



- Buck Rumble

[flozki]

well. i got one of those beasts..and i must say it never ever reaches
the "mechanical" quality of the neumann AM32,VMS66,70 design.
in my opinion it is mechanical quite similar to to the old scully expect it totally 70ies style hehe.but then i prefer the beautyfull original scully.
the electronics was really great and new when it came out.same thing with vms80. the vms80 was also a downgrade if we compare the important mechanical details.

but for me the only thing that counts is the mechanics:
neumann bed is much more precise. also the whole TT- bearing is really nice made.

electronically, for a serious use it should be totally replaced with something modern.to use 40 year old electronics...i can only accept that if it affects the sound...but to achieve a reproduceable cut...hmm

but i am sure a LS76 can be used with excelent results if it still runs and maintained well.

if you want a "for ever working lathe"...get a neumann mechanics. you find nothing better.
it is like the old mechanical lathes made in switzerland.(used in mechnaical workshops..not for disc cutting) like "schäublin" they are made between 1940-1960. nowadays you can not buy anymore this kind of quality. to expensive to produce. people are not willing to spend that money. so the only way is a refurbished one.

theroetically you can build today the lathe of the lathes with air bearings super motors whatever... but i guess no one will pay for it.

but for the LS76 lovers... i am glad to give it a new home...offers welcome..

[petermontg]

Mike fuller had his up for sale a while back, cut The Eagles, Clapton, Bee Gees. Great piece of history for mere 12kUSD not sure what head was. Don't think it was anything like a Westrex or Neumann.

Flozki would you know where to find a Scully manual, for LS-76, or Manual Vari Pitch?

Edit: Fragglies, it's just a matter of finding correct mount for head combination. Neumann SA66 with Neumann SX and Westrex mount with Westrex 3D/2D

[fraggle]

cool and i have another question:)
why does a neumann or scully normally have eq's?
i don't get it because nowadays everything is mastered anyway. so it should be alright to just play the cd with the master adjust the machnine all eq's on 0 and cut?
i mean if i master my tracks i want them to sound exaclty like that if the cutting engineer changes frequences that doesnt make sense to me.
cheers

[petermontg]

cool and i have another question:)
why does a neumann or scully normally have eq's?
i don't get it because nowadays everything is mastered anyway. so it should be alright to just play the cd with the master adjust the machnine all eq's on 0 and cut?
i mean if i master my tracks i want them to sound exaclty like that if the cutting engineer changes frequences that doesnt make sense to me.
cheers

Are you referring to filters or limiters, or to some rigs that have an EQ placed in chain.

Am sure some stuff needs to be reveiwed to get the best from a cut. You never know how a certain master will track unless you do it, not all the time though.

[fraggle]

I was talking about the eq's.
I know a bit about mastering. Have been making music for the last 10 years. i just dont understand why i need eq's and limiters when i cut on those systems.
normally the music you get is mastered and if not than it would be so much easier to master with nuendo or similar soft or hardware before i start cutting. burn it on cd and that's it.
I have done this with the dubcutter and had amazing results no problem...

[petermontg]

I was talking about the eq's.
I know a bit about mastering. Have been making music for the last 10 years. i just dont understand why i need eq's and limiters when i cut on those systems.
normally the music you get is mastered and if not than it would be so much easier to master with nuendo or similar soft or hardware before i start cutting. burn it on cd and that's it.
I have done this with the dubcutter and had amazing results no problem...

It's usally a High Freq. limiter to tame the highs and stop from blowing your coils from what I gather. EQ's are usally Ellipticial EQ's to mono the lower Freq.

I have seen rigs with a Manley/Maselec placed in. Am sure someone could explain better than me.

[fraggle]

I understand that i just reckon with a proper master before hand this should be obsolete you know I mean whats the point of a second master really?
cheers mate

[petermontg]

If the master is correct and tracks ok. There's no need to do anything. Id say it's not used 100% of the time.

Prob there for the low freq. vs volume scenario.

[opcode66]

There is an RIAA eq built into the amps in the amp rack (either sal or vg). I think everyone knows why those are there. And if you turn it off your playback will be affected since every consumer turntable implements the Reverse RIAA (De-emphasis) curve. With no RIAA on when cutting your playback will sound like someone turned down bands on a banded eq. This is because the de-emphasis is there in the playback unit and if you did not cut with pre-emphasis then your signal will sound super dull because the playback unit is applying the de-emphasis (the downward eq curve).

The Accelleration Limiter (high frequency limiter) as they are called are there to protect the coils from burn out on sustained high frequencies. It is similar to a de-esser. Depending on the material, you might not even need them at all. A Maselec can be used in place of the BSB74 Acceleration Limiters. I suppose you could do this in your mastering before feeding the audio into the lathe but why take the extra time to prep the material, bounce it and then feed it into the lathe? It is faster using outboard gear and you can monitor meters and make corrections as you preview the material. I rarely get material that I felt was "Mastered" correctly. Touchup is generally required.

I use a RTAS plugin from Brainworx for eliptical eq. Without this, when recording high volume, out of phase low end frequencies will happily skip the tonearm on playback. To keep from cutting grooves that are more or less ramps for the stylus to jump off you use an eliptical eq. I always use one. The frequency cutoff for mono summing changes with the material being cut. But I always use one.

[petermontg]

The Accelleration Limiter (high frequency limiter) as they are called are there to protect the coils from burn out on sustained high frequencies. It is similar to a de-esser. Depending on the material, you might not even need them at all. A Maselec can be used in place of the BSB74 Acceleration Limiters.

That would explain Fraggle's question. If EQ is present see if limiter is present also.

I'am a firm believer that your ME should also be able to cut your material. If you've had problems with cutting engineer's changing your master before it's probaly best step for you. I tried to explain this to somebody before and they just couldn't understand what i was trying to say. got their stuff mastered and then sent out to a cutting room and master was changed, they were not happy obviously. Who know's how stuff will track unless you do it first and solve the problems then.

[opcode66]

Unless asked to "Master" a track, I try to stay hands off as much as possible. I will only make tweaks to insure a proper cut. Unless asked to do more.

[Aussie0zborn]

I'am a firm believer that your ME should also be able to cut your material. If you've had problems with cutting engineer's changing your master before it's probaly best step for you. I tried to explain this to somebody before and they just couldn't understand what i was trying to say...

Twenty years ago people knew how to mix and prepare a master for vinyl. With the advent of digital all the old rules went out the window. Transferring a digital master to vinyl is often like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole . Sometimes you need to round-off the edges to make it fit.

[Serif]

I have two LS-76 manuals. Got one from Len. Cost some buckage to have printed and ring bound, but it's complete - only there never was an updated manual for the versions made after 1976.

My LS-76 is the one Mike Fuller used to own. Number 656 - from about 1978. Vacuum for tt is captive, underneath. Plus videoscope attachment. Few other differences, however.

Mike used only Ortofon heads (blue and green). These are flat as a finger lake with only 10 dB feedback.

Can't imagine needing a more sturdy machine. Feedscrew and A table are solid and true. Even after sailing through the Bermuda triangle! Electronics are still apparently perfect. Expansions and Head Drop are correct and smooth. These were still made before planned obsolescence took over manufacturing worldwide. Non-disposable Mercedes?





- Chip Swarf

[Aussie0zborn]

That was a nice buy! Which head(s) are you using? I believe the Ortofon heads were sold to Australia.

[fraggle]

sounds good all together:)
and yes i know about the riaa.
But i am also wondering why some of the racks still cost so much money.
i am talking about the ortofon for example.
Often there are 2 amps
1 preamp (riaa)
maype a pich computer an 30 years old eq and limter.
not worth 25000 Euros i think.

@ Aussie I understand that the master for vinyl records has to be different but I never had issues cutting anything.
I just mastered the stuff, cut the highs and bottoms a bit and thats it:)
Cheers

[petermontg]

sounds good all together:)
and yes i know about the riaa.
But i am also wondering why some of the racks still cost so much money.
i am talking about the ortofon for example.
Often there are 2 amps
1 preamp (riaa)
maype a pich computer an 30 years old eq and limter.
not worth 25000 Euros i think.

@ Aussie I understand that the master for vinyl records has to be different but I never had issues cutting anything.
I just mastered the stuff, cut the highs and bottoms a bit and thats it:)
Cheers

Am sure for to sell a lathe with 30 year old pitch computer. It would still have to be maintained. It's a matter of finding one that's well maintained is the problem. Your in Europe now, Fraggle right. This opens up the Pitch 98 not costing an arm and a leg to get the guys to you.

I'll remember that one Aussie. plain and simple advice.

Serif, I was curious to where that went. nice purchase. Did Len send you a psyhical copy or just files.