Club Grundy VMS lathe history

[jjgolden]

I've got a question regarding past history of our lathes..

Last year, I acquired a Grundy assembled vms-70. I regret not having asked Al directly where exactly it came from. Bonati mentioned some were from Sterling and others from Masterdisk. Does anybody care to comment or add some knowledge about the history of these lathes and how, when & where they were acquired?




Thanks!
JJG

[gold]

I've got a question regarding past history of our lathes..
Last year, I acquired a Grundy assembled vms-70. I regret not having asked Al directly where exactly it came from. Bonati mentioned some were from Sterling and others from Masterdisk. Does anybody care to comment or add some knowledge about the history of these lathes and how, when & where they were acquired?

Al didn't like to discuss provenance because he felt once you bought it it was yours and the history was not important. All of them cut hits so who cares.

That said all but one of the VMS66/70's came from Sterling. They were acquired in the very late 1990's. I know there were three VMS66's and I think there were four VMS70's.

You may have gotten the one that wasn't part of that lot. The last owner of that lathe was Herb Powers when he had Powers House of Sound. It was not functional when he got it and he never got it running. I don't know where he got it from. Since I wasn't much involved with working on yours I'm not positive. Josh would know. I think when the Masterdisk lathes were sold a very incomplete lathe was acquired. There may be some pieces of that on yours.

[jjgolden]

Cool, Thanks for the input Paul, I really appreciate it.
That's the kind of info I find interesting.
I did get that impression from Al as well. I can appreciate the fresh start perspective, but at the same time, you can't help but wonder where this old thing has been and/or what it's been through. Not for bragging rights, just for curiosity's sake.


JJG

[Bonati]

I'm ashamed to say it since I worked on it, but I'm not exactly sure who got the Herb Powers lathe (henceforth referred to as "HPL"). It's either you, JJ, or Opcode (Todd). Your lathe was moved from Al's house to the shop, but I remember the HPL was already down at the shop before that. If I had to bet I'd say Todd got it.

Pretty positive my lathe came from Sterling, as that was the biggest lot of VMS70s that Al had. That said, hardly any of the acquired systems stayed complete. Pitch boxes, suspension boxes, scopes, etc. - these things were all swapped around to complete a system and get it ready for pickup. We only worked on one lathe at a time.

It's true that Al wanted the lathes to have a clean slate. "Is it time to work on the Herb Powers lathe yet?" - I used to say that just to get him going. I found it really curious that he had such a strong opinion on burying the history before they went back out into the world. Completely uninterested in regaling you with stories about the machine's past. Let it go, start fresh, the future is bright, etc etc.

[opcode66]

Interesting, but ultimately unimportant. My lathe (henceforth refered to as Charlotte or Old Girl as I've named her) works fantastically well. Ifbit was once non-functional that is certainly no longer the case. Being in Al's shop and seeing all the other parts around it is easy to recognize that function systems were pieced together from disparate souces. I feel fortunate to have Old Girl. Wouldn't trade her for anything anytime. She lives on to insure this medium lives on and new generations of music enthusiasts can continue to appreciate vinyl. Regardless of her past.

[jjgolden]

Thanks Josh,
Thats some info I,m happy to know.. Any info is good to hear.

I,m interested in the history of cutting, the history of these lathes, we learn from history, we learn from stories that can be told from our lathes and where they,ve been and that makes it important, to me at least. I,m sure Al didn,t want people to use they're history as a factor of value, partly because to my knowledge they (the 70s) were all sold by him for aproximatly the same price regardless of where they came from.
I agree with Al and Todd in that where mine came from is completely irrelivant in terms of how I cut a quality record today, but I will always be facinated by the little bits and peices of history that come to the surface.
Much the same way a vintage aircraft restoration or any surviving piece of ancient history would be.

JJG

[dietrich10]

I am always a sucker for history and provenance.
Al's philosophy of the putting the best available parts together for the best system is the superior train of thought.

My VMS came from Masterdisk and I love to think Howie cut 'Licensed to Ill' on it and that is use to keep Mr Ludwig company(says 'Bob's room' on two different parts).
But I am sure it cut plenty of Scorpions and Styx sides.....

[flozki]

a little off topic
but it would be interesting to know where the real herb power lathes went.
i heard he had the scully westrex system. 2 connected to cut the master and the ref in same time. but maybe thats just a nice story.
anyway

herb was one of my favorite cutting engineers during the F/W days.
later i never found records with same quality...
he was my cutting hero back in the days.
loud. super dynamic, fat grooves and the best runout groove signature ever hehe.
all the 80ies hiphop 12" (tommy boy...)

it was reference for years for me.
so would be interesting to know the setup. therefore a little history is always interesting.


i was only visitng frankford/wayne after he left and at this time i think 2 x VMS66( with strange pitch systems) and one scully not in operational state.

[concretecowboy71]

Al told me that mine came from Sterling. I have since spoken to Chris Muth about my lathe when I had to do the top end tear down last year and he confirmed that as well and said that he worked on that lathe not only with Al but when he worked at Sterling as a tech.

I got mine before opcode and jj so it was probably part of the same lot that supplied you guys also.

I am a sucker for history also and do feel in some way the history adds to the aura of the machine. Like it has been pointed out, all of these machines have history, due to the small number in existence, but it is fun to imagine what might have sat on that table at one point.

I unfortunately do not have cool names for my lathes. I just call them #1 and #2, hence opening the door to all sorts of bathroom humor!

[opcode66]

If it helps any, my lathe cabinet had a wicked musty smell to it. Like it had been stored in a shed or a garage for a looooooonnnnnnggggg time. Took a while for me to get the smell out. And to clean out all of the various dust and debris. Smells better now! But, everytime I open up the panels and smell the inside I'm reminded of Al's shop and picking up the lathe.

Anyway, it sounds to me like I in fact have Herb Power's lathe since it fits the bill timing-wise as well as smelling like it had sat disused for some time.

[gold]

i was only visitng frankford/wayne after he left and at this time i think 2 x VMS66( with strange pitch systems) and one scully not in operational state.

At closing there were two VMS70's with Compudisk automation. The VMS66 was there but owned by someone else. I guess you were there to install the Vinylium system when one of the Compudisk systems couldn't be repaired. Last I heard the one with the Compudisk was for sale but that was a few years ago.

Herb moved to the Hit Factory after F/W. There were three VMS70's and a DMM at Hit Factory. One of the VMS70's went to Chicago Mastering and the other two are in storage as far as I know. It looks like the DMM was destroyed by shipping it to and fro without packing it properly. I know someone who saw the case cracked open. I have been asking about it for years and no one seems to know its fate.

[mossboss]

A DMM that was busted on transport!!!!
What a pity
This is not another urban myth is it?
No one ever saw it but Someone heard about it in the pub from a friend who has a friend who's cousin told him as he knows this guy who knew the guy that was at the rental desk where they rented the truck, well the truck driver told this guy the story when he returned the truck Tra la la
We all know these stories they take a life of their own
Be interesting to know whatever happened to that machine
Cheers

[flozki]

yes that kind of stuff happens
i never heard about the damaged dmm. but i have a nice picture of a VMS70 which was not attached to the truck...
they even didnt removed the suspension box or the microscope...
i think i can now post it (if i havent before) it has been a while. and it was at our place for repair back in the days....

so DO fix your lathes for transport. haha.
and a good crating helps more than having a transport insurance.

enjoy.

[mossboss]

Dear oh Dear
Do some people have any brains at all???
I have shifted lathes and pressing plants about 10 or more times with never even a scratch
Some of them went a damn a long way as well
The only mishap I ever encountered was when the "professional" guys tipped one of my manual Toolex presses over with the end result been destroying the timing box outer case
All the gear inside was fine
The 70 tonne press did a good job straightening out the box that was made out of 3 mm steel
A Few cuts to get to some spots than a few welds a bit of grinding clean Than with a coat of paint on it and it is as good as new
The annoying part about it was the fact that I warned them and told them Look this is top heavy so strap it down on the trolley
The told me that the knew what their are doing They apologised and paid the damages but 2-3 days wasted for no reason
Second Last move was from a studio located on the 2nd floor with no lift 4 sets of steps with 3 landings in between them and a 2 foot drop on the ground floor as the steps where inaccessible to the truck we had
That was hard work with 4 of us on the job Despite what you remove to lighten them up they are still very hard things to move
Latest move recently of 2 lathes out of a basement Up six steps
By comparison to the other one it was a walk in the park
These things are HEAVY
Do not trust any one when it comes to lathes, thats for sure, so cutting lathe moves I attend them 100%
So far not an issue I want to keep it this way as well
Cheers

[jjgolden]

Man, that is a sad sight...
I researched shipping companies but in the end just could not justify the cost and risk of having it done.
We disassembled and packed mine up in a Penske truck and drove it straight through from New Jersey to Southern California in 46 hours. I was nervous about leaving it overnight in a parking lot...

JJG

[opcode66]

We disassembled and packed mine up in a Penske truck and drove it straight through from New Jersey to Southern California in 46 hours. I was nervous about leaving it overnight in a parking lot...
JJG

I did the same thing but straight to Chicago. The friend I was traveling with wanted to get some rest. So, we stopped at a hotel. But, I parked so I could see the truck. Had a padlock on it. I must have got up every hour to look out the window. Talk about nerves.

[gold]

Be interesting to know whatever happened to that machine
Cheers

I just told you.

[mossboss]

And the busted bits?
No one seems to know you said!!
Cheers

[gold]

Everything has disappeared. I have talked to quite a few people who should know what happened to it. And they don't. The last time it was seen it was busted up. It hasn't been seen since.