DMM 33 mastering for 45 playback

[diamone]

45 RPM audiophile Super Sonic series LPs came out.
but i guess not before the 80s.

Several classical and jazz titles were cut in the 70s but of course all on lacquer and all cut at 45 for 45 playback the same with the DMM titles in the 80s.

Also I could not find any infos. who produced that stuff.

My own research as well as his says that a lot of it was on EMI Angel with a handful on DGG/Polygram and UK Decca and a few others.

The chance is very high that it was cut on a vms80 /vms82 or on one off the vms70'ies beefed up with a technics sp02 or a denon motor.

There's so few 45-for-45 DMM cuts around #1 examples are hard to find and #2 hard to research production for the individual 45 release because all the prod and mast info is all for the normal 33 for 33 playback.

The 33.33 / 45 is not an issue. and most of the time its also not an issue as long as you dont over lay the 2 files in your computer...

Huh? Overlay the 2 files in the computer? I would think one would have to have one file for Side A and one file for Side B as we did and only one file could be loaded at a time. At least that's how he did it.

If you do the cuts on a dmm lathe, it will be rock solid 45.00 rpm no correction needed.
It was only the case with lyrec snycho motor.

Well as he cut one of his on a normal Westrex and cut the other one on a Miller with a Grampian (Haeco) head (SC-1) with the same home-built RIAA transposition, then IF we would have cut at 45 for 45 playback - then presumably both the analog and the digital lacquer cuts would have been in the UK's previously native 45.45 RPM.

BUT remember we are not CUTTING at ANY type of 45 - we are - as the title of the thread states - cutting at 33 FOR 45 playback and transposing the RIAA and NAB curves down to 75% to match. We were worried that the percentage difference would be too high and people would be able to tell upon auditioning - especially comparing to the DVD-Audio (hi res) file we sent all the reviewers on a disc.

But everybody says even playing them side by side - apart from one drifting slowly out of sync with the other - you can't tell if you only play one at a time the same reason U.S.audiences couldn't tell 45.45 (45-for-45 playback) U.K. cuts from 45.00 for 45.00 U.S. cuts - meaning even if we are cutting on the Westrex or Miller and doing 33 mastering for 45 playback - 45-mastering-for-45 playback is irrelevant in the mastering - only the playback since 33.33 mastering is the same regardless of U.S. or U.K. technical parameters.

So if our experiemnts are any guide - you really CAN do this properly in all-analog on a Westrex or a Miller because the difference percentages are so small - but if you wanted to correct for these ~ 0.1% disc playback errors - you could
1 ignore it and do the same as the 45.45 mastering for 45.45 playback people in the U.K. do for U.S. pressings and vice versa and let people tolerate it like they used to do
2 print a 45.00 or 45.45 playback strobe around the rim of the label
3 cut from the digital file and correct for the disc PLAYBACK error in the mastering computer prior to cutting

If you didn't want to do #1 or #2 - for #3 - whether it was cut to lacquer or cut to DMM - since the original cut would have to have been 33.75 RPM instead of 33.33 - even tho the RIAA curve would not matter between 75% and 74.074% or 73.340% - the playback parameters of the digital file being fed to the mastering console WOULD have to be adjusted if you wanted it to be exact.

Before going into all the trouble of correcting the digital file playback parameters for the 33.33 to 33.75 cutting error - he just cut this straight with a 1) 75% NAB curve and a 2) 75% RIAA curve for the analog, and flat from the file with the 75% RIAA curve for the digital AND NOBODY COULD TELL - we're inclined to ditch #3 and either ignore it like they used to do or print a strobe on the label for the perfectionists.

Which probably saved us months and months of work.

Stay Tuned.

[diamone]

Year on (or so).

1 Got this PMed to me by somebody for quad playback purposes.
http://pspatialaudio.com/quad_ambi.htm coupled with their no-need-f
or-RIAA phono cartridge. http://www.phaedrus-audio.com/DisC.htm

In the crappy Web audio demos all I can hear is the center channel comes
up out of the mud and gets some well-needed clarity and the separation
between left and right improves.

Between that and the software pkg itself wd seem for +/- $200
(or a good source on Torrent for the software part) a person could
conceivably have all he needs for the playback part.

I hear major university archives either already have it or are looking
closely into picking both of them up. Will be interesting to see.

Bill in the U.K. who cut the DMM 33-for-45 tests for us last year
died in the pandemic at 58 and his lathe was reported to have
been sold back to the general mastering community at large.

But we are still working on other angles to do both that as well
as the CD-4 for DMM.

I think the other noncommercial niche projects are going to get
better traction though (the analog talking book transfer project
and the 16 RPM background music transfer and remastering project).

I say that because we already told them to find one of the 16-for-16
discs (the last ones in the 80s were 33-for-16) to play on their DisC
cartridge and they are working on putting that up to see how it does.

Stay Tuned Again.

[Aussie0zborn]

You got a DMM cut in the UK last year? By whom?

[diamone]

The guy I FTPed the files to - (he was never a member here)
his handle was EastMidsBill who was (presumably) in the
East Midlands of England - some suburb of Leics or other I think.

The sign in the picture he sent says River Snar if that's any clue.
The postmark on the old box he sent says ``Thurm'' on it.

I ran across him on one of the antique tape boards and
agreed to transfer a ton of rim-drive ``Living Letters Home
from the Front'' when his Dad used to be in the RAF in the 60s.

I kind of doubt he had his own DMM lathe as he implied while
cutting the plate, as presumably all the working DMM lathes
there are accounted for.

My only guess is he had some kind of `in' at someplace that
didn't use their DMM much - maybe The Exchange in London
or if Record Industry in Amsterdam still had theirs I dunno.

When he passed of COVID last Fall his cousin that emailed me
said nothing about a cutting system - just wanted to know if
I knew anybody that would want a ton of electronics and media.

Since Techmoan is in the West Mids not that far away I gave his
cousin his YT channel to contact him and that's the last I heard.

Pressings from the plates came back sounding fabulous.

Wherever he pressed em at says they use ``grainless dye'' so
what the big deal on that is I dunno. The classical and jazz
test was on blue vinyl, the classic pop and rock on red and
then there was some unrelated 7-inch DMMs thrown in as
packing cushion. Beat up as they were - still sounded nice enough.

[Aussie0zborn]

There are no DMM lathes in England anymore that we know of so it was probably done in EU.

[diamone]

Dunno. The only thing I know for sure is that it was NOT done at GZ
otherwise they would have piped up last year when we were doing this
instead of saying ``you send us your file and we'll cut whatever you
want to normal ordinary standards'' the same as everybody else.

So like I said - that leaves somebody who didn't use their DMM much
and wouldn't care that it was tied up in some odd-format production
for awhile vs GZ who has to be cranking out material boom-boom-boom.

Probably couldn't do it again though due to the Transco fire even if
Bill were still alive. Whoever it was he connected with presumably
had to ramp up DMM production just to stay afloat afterwards.