Manufacturing Issues

[slacky]

Hello

My names Calum, I run a record label, I've been going through manufacturing issues that started in February with my latest record. It's getting a bit crazy how many attempts we've had to get it right and I was hoping to get some advice from you guys.

When I receive my TPs there's been unwanted pops 13 seconds in on all 5 records. I flag this with the plant, they claim it could be down to a scratch on metalwork or dirt so they sort it out send another lot of TPs. The issues at 13 secs is gone but then the same issue happens later in the record on all 5 new TPs.

I've gone through this back and forth process so many times and these unwanted pops keep happening at different times on each set of TPs. I've also tried with using another plant altogether. This seems to keep happening, I've gone through 3 sets of TPs already and I'm struggling to understand why.

The masters have nothing noticeable on them that could be causing this.

I was hoping to get your opinions as I've hit a bit of a dead end.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

Thanks

Calum

[misjah]

Well if the pops are random on all TPs you can rule out lacquer/ stamper issues...isn’t this the pressing plant’s problem?

[slacky]

Hey thanks for your response

The pops were happing at the same time on every TP. Then when I highlight the issue, they will resolve the pops I've mentioned but a new one will show up at the same time on all the new TPs. This has been happing at 2 different plants I've worked with, currently requesting my 4th set of TPs from the second plant.

It's really confused me why it's happening so much with this record as I've not had this issue with any others. It is an issue the plant needs to resolve but I'm trying to work out myself what it could be to try speed up the process.

[SueDenim]

Without more detailed information, it's very difficult to even begin to understand where the problem(s) may be being introduced in the manufacturing chain.
However, my first 'guess' would be that it's a plating issue.

For example, you say you've used 2 plants, but do they both perform their own plating or do they use a 3rd party (potentially the same company)?

[slacky]

Hey

Thanks for your thoughts on this, sorry for being so vague with my descriptions (still getting my head around the processes).

I'm not aware of a third party company being used for plating but I will find out as that's a good point. I can see that dust in plating would cause pops, I'll find out more about how they are doing this and if any changes can be made.

Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

This is a difficult issue to resolve if cutting, plating and pressing are performed by three separate parties. The process of elimination can be a long one but a starting point might be:

1. Were masters, mothers and stampers produced?
2. Were all Test Pressings made from the same cut? Same mothers? Same stampers?
3. Has anybody played the mothers? (if they exist)
4. How did they get rid of the pop that appeared in the same spot on all Test Pressings? By cleaning the stampers, making new stampers???
5. Has anybody put the record under a microscope to look at the cause of the pop?
6. Two different pressing plants - using same stampers, different stampers, same cut, different cuts?

The mothers should really be played before stampers are made but it probably doesn't happen so much these days. Waiting until the Test Pressing stage to see that cutting and plating was successful is a bit too late in the game.

[llary]

By any chance is this an ambient / drone recording?

Are we talking massive pops or tiny clicks or somewhere in between?

Is it DMM or lacquer cutting?

If you are paying top dollar to press at a top shelf manufacturer like Optimal or Toyo Kasei then it's probably reasonable to expect perfection or something close.

If it's a small order at a smaller/cheaper plant then you might have to be realistic especially if it's very dynamic or droning music where everything stands out in the quiet sections.

We could probably give you better advice if you post a 30 second YouTube video set to private.

[slacky]

Hey

Thanks so much for the info here guys, this is a really big help, this is a good starting point, I'll ask these questions.

Also to confirm it is a lacquer cut, dance record. I've included a rip of the TP here
https://soundcloud.com/space-ritual-music/zmatsutsi-frogs-tp3/s-xbHgiMJp6NN

(the issues are at 7.53 - 7.56 on all 5 copies) Just to confirm there is nothing on the masters that should be causing this.

Cheers

Calum

[slacky]

I also wanted to confirm that the previous plant I used was DMM cutting. I was getting the same issues with pops, they were unable to resolve so moved to this new plant who does lacquer cuts. Unfortunately, I'm getting the same issue here but at least they are trying to resolve.

[misjah]

At what times do these pops occur?...just had a quick listen (on iPad) and didn’t hear any

[slacky]

Hey so that's between 7.53 - 7.58 (you'll need hedphones to hear properly)

[llary]

There is an annoying high frequency whine all through the recording but I don't know if that's your recording equipment.

Those are really small pops, honestly unless you are paying top dollar for an audiophile pressing I don't think it's reasonable to make a big deal out of that. Just my 2c.

I'm guessing that probably has nothing to do with plating and is maybe just a hard spot in the extruded biscuit. Not always much you can do about it especially on TPs or a short run. Might get better on a full pressing.

If cost is no object and you must have a completely flawless pressing you can maybe try Optimal, Pallas or Toyo Kasei. However plants that are willing to go through 3 rounds of TPs for a small pop are very rare and seems like they are eager to give you good service.

How long is the running time on each side?

[slacky]

Hey thanks for checking this out and getting back to me, I really appreciate your thoughts on this.

Just to confirm this is the only track for A side 45rpm (8.48) I think the frequency issue may be the recording rather than the record.

I know pops like this can be common with vinyl, but when I compare to the previous 3 releases I've done I've never had any issues like this. There's definitely a noticeable difference between them. I understand that TPs might not be as good as the main run but when it's the unwanted pops at the same time on all 5 copies it makes me think it's likely to be on the main run.

I don't have a big budget so will be sticking with who I'm working with. I'm grateful they are trying to resolve and hopefully we can get to the bottom of it.

[Aussie0zborn]

...the unwanted pops at the same time on all 5 copies it makes me think it's likely to be on the main run.

Ofcourse it will be - unless the stampers just need cleaning. The plant needs to identify the cause - grooves "kissing"or just a piece of fly poo on the stamper??

[slacky]

The plant have now said they think it's due to damage in the metalwork. They are going for new stampers and are going to double check the TPs before sending out. Fingers crossed these next copies will be better!

Thanks for all the info, this has given me areas to look into if we continue to have problems.