★★ Construct Neumann VMS 70 from scratch ★★

[alexsation]

Dear friends, all greetings!
My name is Alex. I own vinylium dubplatecutter, for two years the I cut lacquers in Russia and now I need your help. I'm happy with vinylium dubplatecutter, but it has many shortcomings and limitations in contrast to the Neuman vms or Scully, will not enumerate. I have decided to design a professional screw-cutting machine varnishes. I prefer Neumann vms 70, i love this machine, and I want to make a copy of it. I have an engineer machine-builder, he is willing to do all the exact drawings and calculations, But for that we need the exact dimensions of all the external and internal parts, gears, shafts, housings and so on. Recorder and the amplifier will be from vinylium dubplatecutter, and all the mechanics will work on the stepper motors, and programmable controllers. It's not easy job, do not think for one year, but I'm going to bring this project to fruition.
I need your help, drawings and dimensions are very hard to get, If you have any drawings or dimensions, I would be very grateful for the information and any mechanisms Size Neuman vms or Scully.

[opcode66]

Tough request. I don't think anyone has the diagrams you are looking for. It would be easier for you to clone a VMS system if you actually had one. I don't think anyone here is going to start taking measurements for you.

[alexsation]

I agree with you. I'm willing to opt for VMS, But where can you find the though what that information about VMS. On ebay I found this one disc with information about VMS: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEUMANN-VMS-RECORD-LATHE-OPERATION-SERVICE-MANUAL-SET-/151041173123?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item232ac16683
I want to buy it, but I'm not sure that this disc contains the information I needed.

[opcode66]

No, this CD does not contain the information you are looking for. As far as I know, no one has a set of blueprints or engineering diagrams for the physical dimensions of the various parts of a Neumann lathe. No one will take their lathe apart and measure every peice for you.

This is a massive undertaking. Why clone an existing system? There is way more to a Neumann beyond the physical construction. You need a platter motor and p/d computer and amp rack, etc. How do you plan to clone all of that? I'm not saying you couldn't. I'm just asking questions in order to point you in the right direction.

I think making your own design would be easiest and best. I would be happy to help however I can.

[alexsation]

Thanks for the help, and I wanted to buy this CD. It is a pity that I do not find drawings and diagram, I will do your own design. The exterior design will be copy from Neumann vms or Sculli. I love these machines and their system of work. Systems such as Vinylium, Presto is not professional machines. To produce a good machine needs accurate calculations and drawings I have a specialist who will make all the calculations and drawings. Computer control I will gather with other professionals, I will pay money for it, because I myself can not do it.

[Angus McCarthy]

I agree with Opcode. If you are going to fabricate a mastering-grade lathe from scratch, it would be much easier to design a new one, based on the same general form as a Neumann lathe. I mean, they are awesome machines, but, they were all designed 40-plus years ago. Why copy them when you could be the next Neumann!

[opcode66]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[alexsation]

It's a terrific idea!! But I may not do the task, that-be to build a new modern Neumann, need to to know very well how to work the previous VMS 66, 70, 74, 80?! With Neumann VMS I into a living not worked, but watched a lot of video. Maybe a CD to ebey will help me became better acquainted with these machines
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEUMANN-VMS-RECORD-LATHE-OPERATION-SERVICE-MANUAL-SET-/151045035389?pt=US_Other_Pro_Audio&hash=item232afc557d
In our time, is not difficult to build a machine of its class, but I need more information. I only work with vinyliun, I can not even change step recording, maximum of 14-15 minutes, I'm can not write down 14 "inches lacquer, beyond that there are still a lot of restrictions
Where can you find at least some some information about Neumann? Advise the me something.
I frisked whole forum, but found only a couple of of photos disassembled Scully, with manual transmission, a complex mechanism

[concretecowboy71]

I have heard a legend that all the drawing were destroyed or thrown out when Sennheiser bought Neumann. THIS MAY NOT BE TRUE, but I have heard the story twice from different people.

I have also talked with people that have been to Germany and tracked down the original engineers and they also came up empty handed...this was more than a decade ago.

Would it not be cheaper and easier to buy a scrap machine? You don't need the rack or the cutterhead and those are two of the big ticket items. It seems that a lot of the carriage bed and base is cast and not machined. You would have to work around that issues also. I am not an engineer so I do not know if that is a problem or not.

Again I ask, would it not be easier and more cost effective just to buy a machine that is out of service and work from there?

[alexsation]

Many legends are true, probably that the documents have destroyed, but unfortunately we never learn the truth. I was thinking about how to buy an old machine, but there is a saying: restore the old be much more expensive than to buy or make a new. On ebey I found an old and not working Scully, an affordable amount, but I think Scully recover much more expensive than the VMS. Shipping to Russia will be expensive, and the most expensive is the Russian Customs except delivery will need to pay tax of about 50% of the total cost. It will be a very expensive machine. Recorder and the amplifier I already have (vinylium). If I will to design machine and assemble it myself, too, will be expensive, but any malfunction will I know which node is responsible for what, and quickly resolve all problems this is a big plus.

[djlithium]

Hi Alex.
One possible solution here is to "digitize" an existing unit. Handheld 3D scanners with the accuracy (and I mean they are accurate enough for you to get better measurements than using tape measures) you are looking for are not cheap but they can be rented. Once the parts are digitized, they can be reconstructed in SolidWork, LightWave or another application and then printed or machined to those specs once you have it worked out.

Hell, you could actually 3D print a lathe if you wanted to now if you had the thing existing in the computer. Shapeways for example now prints in metals and we are talking everything from motorbike parts to airplane components. Don't let anyone here discourage you.

It would be cheaper to print most of the components at this point than to machine them in some ways. We just need the information or someone to assist in the modeling aspect of putting a new lathe design together. There are tonnes of 3D modelers out there who can make the models (I have a bunch of them on my VFX teams for film and TV jobs) that would be absolutely suitable for 3D printing in metal or sent over to a CNC machining shop. People just need to stop cock blocking with the information.

[mossboss]

Mechanically it is not that hard to reconstruct or better to make a working lathe
The sled bed can be out of a well made hardened bed metal lathe it should include the saddle
The head mounting component can be mounted on the existing saddle as it is called in english, which is standard on any lathe,
Further an aluminium piece can be machined to carry the cutting head which needs to be mounted on the saddle
Platter can be machined from a bronze casting and bearings are available
There is no issue as well in making up an oil friction drive, simple enough to machine up an any decent lathe
In other words with a milling machine and a good engineering lathe given enough time one can certainly make a VMS copy without a lot of difficulty
I have thought about making castings of it using an existing machine as a start making up the patterns so as to be cast in iron and bronze as that is all hat is really with some machining on a horizontal boring machine
The question is how many of these would any one be able to sell so as to recover costs as an estimate of the whole excercsise was about $ 7-10 k with no electronics just for the castings it would be most likely about $ 4 k but a lot of machining bearings and fine ground screw as well as some very fine surface grinding required which will bring it up to about 10 k
It seemed to me to be a non runner as it will take that much again so as to have a working machine
At any rate I have discussed it with Mike Osborne who agrees with me that it would not be a runner
Any one with any thoughts is welcome to chip in with his views
By the way VMS 80 modern electronics is already available from a source and that is where the whole idea come from
So please we would like you to make your views known
We may be have it wrong and there are people out there prepared to go down that path
Cheers

[evildrome]

IMG_6843.JPG

Of course... you have seen this? My half scale VMS 70.

A long way to go but interesting that other people have had the same thoughts in the past.

[dmills]

On the subject of the oil friction drive, don't forget that we have low speed coreless motors now, which were not really a thing in the 70s.
Coreless means zero cogging, which is what that oil coupler was really trying to cut down, I have a Yaskawa example coming, expect I will need custom electronics for it, the usual drivers are all about positioning not precision speed control, but that is hardly a big deal.

Similarly, we have off the shelf hardened and ground cross roller ways available as an off the shelf part from THK and the like, as long as you use the kind with the cage that does not recirculate, and set the preload to something reasonable, these are quiet.

IMHO there is not actually a lot that needs precision grinding that you can not buy off the shelf, but having access to wire EDM is probably useful for some things (I am thinking flextures for head mounting and such).

For shits, I am actually tempted to try mounting a cutting head on my Hardinge HLV crossslide, and making up a way to chuck a blank in the collet chuck.... I wonder?

Regards, Dan.