Picnic Plate Cutters

[piaptk]

For those of you out there that cut picnic plates...

I've been having a really bad problem on THREE of my 6Ns with a wooshy hiss on picnic plates. I try the same needle/cutting setup on a lacquer and it sounds fine, but as soon as I put a picnic plate on it, it gets that wooshing sound again. I've cut well over 1000 of the same brand of picnic plates with great results, but all of a sudden I can't cut anything right!

Anyone have any ideas?

[aaron]

What are you using for a stylus?

The first thing that pops in my mind is that the stylus is starting to get dull.. are you actually cutting or embossing?

[piaptk]

I'm using brand new Apollo ruby styli... And it is happening on three machines. I've looked at the styli under a microscope and cut perfectsounding lacquers with the same styli and machhines. A friend suggested it is because the plates are so much thinner than lacquers that it is cutting at a strange angle, so I'll try to put the plates on a slightly thinner than lacquer piece of polycarb. The thing is, I've never adjusted it before and I've cut over 1000 plates with no problem... Problem with this hobby (for me anyway) seems to be that things are working great and then stop for no good reason!

[aaron]

I've tried using those plates with a ruby stylus... got a ton of noise but not much else useful.

Do you mount the stylus in backwards? What sort of angle do you use? Does it actually cut or emboss?

[piaptk]

I mount the stylus just like you would with a lacquer and it cuts, not bosses. You get some noise, but a lot of it dissapears when you turn down the highest freq of a five band eq. Also depends on the plate. Bought some thin ones at a dollar store and at party stores and they were awful. The only place I can find decent ones is t safeway grocery stores.

[Aussie0zborn]

Has the formulation of the plates changed?

[aaron]

I've been doing some experiments cutting plates.. have you ever got a silent groove cut into one? Every one I've tried has a fairly loud "sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" kind of sound. Do you heat your stylus?

It seems like the chip coming off is pretty good now at least... nice strands that wrap around the spindle. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to get good fidelity out of plates.

[piaptk]

Has the formulation of the plates changed?

I don't think so, I bought $200 worth of the same plates, and have just gotten down to the middle of my stack after cutting a LOT of them successfully.

To AARON
It is definitely possible to get a decent sounding (though no where near silent) cut on them if they are thick enough. You jsut have to drop the high freq on the EQ to get rid of a lot of the noise.

[piaptk]

All of a sudden after 2 weeks of sounding like crap, one decided to start working... I have no idea what changed, other than just reinserting the needle over and over again, now it's sounding decent. Which makes it even more frustrating...

Then, the other one started actually working. And I'm doing absolutely nothing different. Oh well, I'll love it while it lasts... I've got 400 plates I have to cut for various bands...

Once you get them sounding good, keep a can of compressed air on hand (if you don't have a vacuum), because that stuff likes to tangle if it's not perfectly trailing. Nice thing is that the plastic isn't as heavy as lacquer swarf and generally won't ruin a cut unless it backs up TOO much and lifts the needle off the plate.

[aaron]

What brand plates are you using? I have some (Solo maybe?) that are square, but have a rounded part in the middle that I cut out.

As far as noise, I'm just cutting grooves with no signal... and it sounds like a very worn out record. Nothing I'd feel comfortable playing with a good stylus. Like I said, I get a good chip off of it though. I've also been cutting with a 90 degree rake angle.. do you angle it backwards/forwards at all?

[piaptk]

What brand plates are you using? I have some (Solo maybe?) that are square, but have a rounded part in the middle that I cut out.

As far as noise, I'm just cutting grooves with no signal... and it sounds like a very worn out record. Nothing I'd feel comfortable playing with a good stylus. Like I said, I get a good chip off of it though. I've also been cutting with a 90 degree rake angle.. do you angle it backwards/forwards at all?

I use Safeway brand. They are the only ones I can find that are thick enough and wide enough (a 10" plate yields about 7" of cutting space, though I always start at the 6" mark, because the outside edges aren't very reliable). How deep are you cutting? I realized last night that I had to cut a deeper groove than I had been before and that got rid of a lot of noise. not sure why it worked before and wasn't now.

If you don't have a safeway around you, I can send you a few to try. What is your cutting setup?

[aaron]

I got a homebrew lathe with a presto 1C... ruby stylus. Hard to say exactly how deep I'm cutting, but it seems like a pretty decent groove. Maybe the problem is the plates I have are very thin, almost paper thin. Maybe I'll shop around for some thicker ones.

Do you have the stylus straight up? What I mean, is the cutting face perpendicular to the cutting surface?

[piaptk]

I got a homebrew lathe with a presto 1C... ruby stylus. Hard to say exactly how deep I'm cutting, but it seems like a pretty decent groove. Maybe the problem is the plates I have are very thin, almost paper thin. Maybe I'll shop around for some thicker ones.

Do you have the stylus straight up? What I mean, is the cutting face perpendicular to the cutting surface?

Yeah, I've used those... I got them from a party store. They are AWFUL. I've been to every grocery store in the pacific northwest, and the only plates I've found that have worked are the Safeway ones. I buy $200 worth at a time just so that I've got a backstock if they stop making them.

The needle is like 2 degrees off 90, whatever is standard cutting practice. I'm not leaning it back or anything.

I got my third lathe up and running... Lathes are a cruel mistress when you are learning your way around them. But, like any cruel mistress, it can feel amazing when it's going right!

I'd like to see a pic of your lathe...

[aaron]

I will post pics of my lathe when I get a chance.

Unfortunately there is no safeway where I live Have to find some better ones (I think they're "Solo" brand)

[piaptk]

I will post pics of my lathe when I get a chance.

Unfortunately there is no safeway where I live Have to find some better ones (I think they're "Solo" brand)

Don't think Solo makes the large plates anymore... they all have compartments now...

[Jesus H Chrysler]

solo still makes them for store brands. the ones i get from the party store don't have a solo logo on them anywhere but in really small type on the back of the package it says manufactured by solo brand for party city, blah blah blah. These are the ones that cut the best, though I have had problems with certain colors.
the only actual solo branded plates I get around here are the translucent ones and they don't cut worth a crap ( never tried embossing them though, maybe that'd work).
the generic red white and blue ones i get at the piggly wiggly were ok, but then they changed suppliers or something and I got that whooshy hiss that piaptk was talking about.
the dollar store plates cut ok, but are really thin, and the molds aren't the smoothest (lotsa bubbles, fisheyes, etc) but they cut fine if you cut deep enough.

[piaptk]

solo still makes them for store brands. the ones i get from the party store don't have a solo logo on them anywhere but in really small type on the back of the package it says manufactured by solo brand for party city, blah blah blah. These are the ones that cut the best, though I have had problems with certain colors.
the only actual solo branded plates I get around here are the translucent ones and they don't cut worth a crap ( never tried embossing them though, maybe that'd work).
the generic red white and blue ones i get at the piggly wiggly were ok, but then they changed suppliers or something and I got that whooshy hiss that piaptk was talking about.
the dollar store plates cut ok, but are really thin, and the molds aren't the smoothest (lotsa bubbles, fisheyes, etc) but they cut fine if you cut deep enough.

Which colors work best/worst from party city? I got a few from there and they were really thin if I remember right... but i'm up for giving them another try. The translucent ones are made of a much more rigid plastic that is the same stuff that plastic champagne flutes are made of, and you are right, they sound AWFUL.

[aaron]

There's a party city by my house, I'll check it out in the next couple of days

piaptk, do you have any samples of your picnic plate cuts? I'm interested in hearing how much noise you get with silent grooves, so I at least have a starting point to try and acheive.

[piaptk]

I don't have any sound samples, but I will try to rip one soon. It is going to be pretty loud, but should dull to mild shhhhhhh once you drop the highest freq of a 5 band eq way down. You just have to be sure and boost the highs before cutting. Obviously you aren't going to get a super accurate tonal reproduction or anything close to it, but it will be more than passable to non-audiophiles who like the fact that they have a picnic plate with grooves cut into it.

[Jesus H Chrysler]

colors I have used from party city successfully: pink, orange, yellow, light green, black
colors that failed: red (unlike most plates that have a shiny top/dull bottom, the red plate was shiny on both sides and cut very noisy, also had kind of a grain to the finish)