Hello everyone!
I'm new to the forum which I have been following for some time now... I finally decided to get on board, thanks for letting me in!
I have a question it sure is a silly one but I just have to ask: is it possible to adapt a 12" press to press 7"???
Thank you!
Adapting a press
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concretecowboy71
- Posts: 569
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- Location: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
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Yes. When Gotta Groove in Cleveland opened, they had some 7 inch presse that came with the lot that were in bad shape. Instead of spending the time to bring those back to life, they had a 12 inch press adapted for 7 inch work.
I do not know the details, but it can be done.
I do not know the details, but it can be done.
Cutting Masters in Bristol,Virginia, USA
Well Made Music / Gotta Groove Records
Well Made Music / Gotta Groove Records
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Aussie0zborn
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Welcome to the forum.
In any manual press all you need to do is change the moulds... today 7", tomorrow 12". In a standard automatic press, you need to change the moulds and the automation so you do not want to be changing from one size to another so its best to have dedicated 7" machines and dedicated 12" machines. The exceptionj to this rule are Alpha Toolex automatic presses which do not allow for changing the mould size - there is one model for 7" and one model for 12".
The MAP 7" automtic press is strictly for 7" records and you can not use larger moulds.
So our question to you is.... do you have a 12" press and if so, which one? If you let us know we can be more specific with our answers and save a lot of time.
In any manual press all you need to do is change the moulds... today 7", tomorrow 12". In a standard automatic press, you need to change the moulds and the automation so you do not want to be changing from one size to another so its best to have dedicated 7" machines and dedicated 12" machines. The exceptionj to this rule are Alpha Toolex automatic presses which do not allow for changing the mould size - there is one model for 7" and one model for 12".
The MAP 7" automtic press is strictly for 7" records and you can not use larger moulds.
So our question to you is.... do you have a 12" press and if so, which one? If you let us know we can be more specific with our answers and save a lot of time.
Sure mate You can do all formats on one press Easy Breezy
One set of bolsters
One set of moulds for each format
One set of forming dies for metal work per format
Make stampers always out of 14" lacquers
Form them accordingly for 7" 10" or 12" but press 12" records all the time
Fix the stampers on the 12" molud but the mating surfaces of the moulds would be whatever format you need
Trim them down by adjusting the trimmer accordingly No big deal
They will always be OK as the flash would be strong enough to allow record removal on the standard 12" automatics
It will do the trick
Now
3 sets of moulds x 4400 euros each set Plus VAT
3 sets of formers x 2800 euros each set Plus VAT
Good granulator necessary as you will be grinding down a lot of material A mill as per Andy B may be around the 5-8,000 Euros
A metal detector and removal system for the regrind another 6,000 Euros
Yes you can do without that However a 4 mm screw or a bit of other metal finding its way into the moulds you can kiss a set good buy so another set is called for at 4,400 eu's
The mould makers need to make a living as well
Its called false economy it can happen more than once thats for sure
Oh yeah Regrind is bad Than you may as well forget the above
Want to proceed No issue
Done go for it
One press all formats as I said easy
Now get about 50-60 cents euro each for these records around normal price in Europe Sit down do your maths see how long it will take to recoup your investment or assume that is a Capital investment writen off over the next ten years calculate your return on it
Oh your time Argh that is easy 0.00 euros per hour
Good Luck
Cheers
One set of bolsters
One set of moulds for each format
One set of forming dies for metal work per format
Make stampers always out of 14" lacquers
Form them accordingly for 7" 10" or 12" but press 12" records all the time
Fix the stampers on the 12" molud but the mating surfaces of the moulds would be whatever format you need
Trim them down by adjusting the trimmer accordingly No big deal
They will always be OK as the flash would be strong enough to allow record removal on the standard 12" automatics
It will do the trick
Now
3 sets of moulds x 4400 euros each set Plus VAT
3 sets of formers x 2800 euros each set Plus VAT
Good granulator necessary as you will be grinding down a lot of material A mill as per Andy B may be around the 5-8,000 Euros
A metal detector and removal system for the regrind another 6,000 Euros
Yes you can do without that However a 4 mm screw or a bit of other metal finding its way into the moulds you can kiss a set good buy so another set is called for at 4,400 eu's
The mould makers need to make a living as well
Its called false economy it can happen more than once thats for sure
Oh yeah Regrind is bad Than you may as well forget the above
Want to proceed No issue
Done go for it
One press all formats as I said easy
Now get about 50-60 cents euro each for these records around normal price in Europe Sit down do your maths see how long it will take to recoup your investment or assume that is a Capital investment writen off over the next ten years calculate your return on it
Oh your time Argh that is easy 0.00 euros per hour
Good Luck
Cheers
Chris
Not quite but you still need 3 sets of moulds with 3 sets of bolsters for an Alpha any way mate as well as 3 sets of formers
The formers for these presses are quite simple really about 250-300 EU each
But the Moulds are the same price and you need the bolsters to suit
They have not been made for many years but they are still around I suppose
Cheers
Chris
The formers for these presses are quite simple really about 250-300 EU each
But the Moulds are the same price and you need the bolsters to suit
They have not been made for many years but they are still around I suppose
Cheers
Chris
Chris
There is no harm in having one size in the beginning, if you can get that going good and you are a success then another press is on your short list in the near future. Look at Andy B at my45 that what they do 45s! If you are in the position to setup even one machine and have read the notes from all these guys who are experts about the costs and such and still feel it's possible you should get the TTT and do it.
good luck man!
good luck man!
Even with dance music that isn't really true......
Lots of dance 12s are cut with 2 tracks per side at 33.......
Without having any experience in the logistical side of things, I would say it's better to be equipped to do both than just one - just 12s and you're restricted to not being able to fill the singles rock/indie/alt side, but not being able to do 12s means no dance or albums, so I guess it really depends on whether you can afford to adapt the setup you get to do more than one size....
Lots of dance 12s are cut with 2 tracks per side at 33.......
Without having any experience in the logistical side of things, I would say it's better to be equipped to do both than just one - just 12s and you're restricted to not being able to fill the singles rock/indie/alt side, but not being able to do 12s means no dance or albums, so I guess it really depends on whether you can afford to adapt the setup you get to do more than one size....
As a dj, this is what I most commonly see.
Side A - very hot levels. This is the featured track. Usually 45.
Side B - one to two tracks. If one track, usually also 45. If two tracks, then the first is sometimes 45, sometimes 33. The second is nearly always 33.
Side A - very hot levels. This is the featured track. Usually 45.
Side B - one to two tracks. If one track, usually also 45. If two tracks, then the first is sometimes 45, sometimes 33. The second is nearly always 33.
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Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Well Mate Nonsense?andybee wrote:hey mossy, a lot of energy waste for a 7inch, first to press
a 12" then cut it down to a 7inch...
possible, but nonsense IMHO
Not sure about that May be you want to have a look at the EMI 1400 press
They have always functioned that way 12" 10" and 7" on the same press as described previously
Also Vinilium in Belgium (RIP) did the 10" the same way but a much more cumbersome process
Energy, Ah I know
Sure it is costly so we need not waste it
Its really simple you need this much to do so much
What escapes most people when they get on to the energy trip is this:
Run a one machine operation
This situation wastes a pile of calories so as to get it up to temp
The boiler wastes a stack of energy to get up to required steam pressure so as to say run it for whatever
Let's say a 500 batch turn it on do the 2.5-3.5 hour run than off and do the same again some other day for another 500 run Great
Yeah I know
Get that Certus German steam thingy going
Wait for say 20 minutes to half an hour
Put the 702 on test or heat for at least 20 minutes after it got up to pressure
May be you need a bit more on a lovely German winters day at minus 15c
Ah forgot
The room is centrally heated so it lot higher temperature in there less time required, Right!
No energy required to keep the room heated Ha Ha
Sure thing mate
Heat up about .5 of a tone of steel like the boiler itself, its flue, the moulds, the plattens on the prtess, the steam pipes from the boiler to the machine also valves and flex hoses so they are all are up to temp than you can press some records
Ah yes
The hydraulics are also running so they get stable as well, say about 10-15 minutes
Oil gets heated by friction so it just sits there loading and un loading the accumulator until the flactuations are out of the system or you be making rejects for a while
The extruder would to sit around heating and cooling for about 1/2 an hour as well eating away the KW's
Than make a few pucks so as to get rid of the resident compound and Off we go for our 500 run
Great thats energy efficient Yeah Right ON my friend
The energy wasted and it is lot, doing that does not compare mate
Calculate the energy loss than tell me how efficient a one machine operation is Andy B, running for short runs or even a whole 8 hour day
Every one in the game has these losses
Inescapable if it is a daily stop start situation
The point being that running a plant that goes 12-14 hours a day with a few machines installed, where the start up losses are shared over reasonable production runs and over a number of machines it is a far better proposition than a one machine operation where all the parasitic energy loss is loaded on to one run
The point being that In so far as energy losses are concerned grinding down trimmings from a 12" to a 10" to a 7" record it is a hell of a lot less energy consuming than the losses above
The difference between preplastizing a 70-80 gram puck for a 7" record as against a 150-160 gram puck for a 12" record is probobaly 20-30% more energy
The steam requirement remains the same as a 12" record
A 28 second cycle as against say an 16-18 second cycle another 10-15% more
Does it cost twice as much? NO
A reasonable size granulator (Andy B mill) will grind down around the 100 KG of trimmings a days production in around 15-20 Minutes with about 15-20 KW motor The cost of juice is around 1.5-2 euros
Compare that with all the oil or gas plus the electricity used to start up!
If your boiler still has pressure in it the next start up say half a bar or so and the palttens of the presses still nice and warm to the touch, thats when one minimises start up energy losses
The more machines running so as to share this loss the lesser is the cost on a per record basis
Simple
Any one who wants to challenge the above can do so it is a simple calculation
Not hard at all
The issue is where does one obtain the necessary equipment so as to do that small one press all formats production ability nowdays without breaking the bank?
The inefficiency of a one press operation will always be there regardless a far more significant energy loss, than grinding down trimmings
That is the whole point
Cheers
Chris
