testing Jerry's steel cone styli

[uvoscillator]

Hi there !
Just receive and done first testing Jerry's steel styli.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281196676466

I've take cone ones and try to emboss with them. With comparing to sapphire.
Anything was done as usual - WD-40 for lubricating, 60-70C heating with lamp.
Jerry's cone:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/saph_test.wav

Sapphire:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/steel_test.wav

I've experimented with steel before and Jerry's styli works very good for steel, but as you can see sapphire is out of competition.
Can't say how much they will last. This needs to do different research

Good luck !
Sergey

[morrisjer]

Hey Sergey,

Thanks for your response to my steel needles. I am constantly experimenting with my steel, and I continue to improve by making them smoother around the tip and the right cone angle all through. It sounds like you have had good results with my needles, but you seem to lean towards sapphire if I read your post correctly. I am sure sapphire costs more than my needles, and I have no idea how long they would last. I have a PR man, Mike, that is a Lathetroll member and I am always sending needles to him to test with his many lathes. Then he replies to me telling me the good and weak points. Eventually as we work together, hopefully we can zero in and eliminate some of any flaws that there may be.

Jerry

[morrisjer]

About my needles. A member of Lathetrolls provided the following:

"Did he order the triangles? Sapphires do, and always will, blow anybody's steel needles out of the water. You aren't providing a substitute for $100 sapphires.. you are providing a LOW COST alternative for people to experiment with. You are a bicycle, Sapphires are a Mercedes... Not fair to compare yourself to something you aren't trying to be anyway."

[piaptk]

I wrote that, I thought he was using the steel triangles for CUTTING.

In theory, Jerry's cones should be comparable to a backwards styli. However, we have been doing a LOT of adjustments, and trying to find just the right cone. Some have been better than others. Not sure which batch you got, Sergei, but I'd be interested to know how the sound was... email me at lathecuts-AAAT-yahoooooo-dawt-cawm... Any feedback you can give us will help us dial this thing in! Jerry keeps pretty good notes about what he does to each batch, and I'm guessing what batch he sends everyone, so if there is a problem with yours, we will know which batch, what he did, and we can fix it.

[Gus]

hey uvoscillator nice sound!
what format do you use for embossing?

Hi there !
Just receive and done first testing Jerry's steel styli.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281196676466

I've take cone ones and try to emboss with them. With comparing to sapphire.
Anything was done as usual - WD-40 for lubricating, 60-70C heating with lamp.
Jerry's cone:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/saph_test.wav

Sapphire:


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/steel_test.wav

I've experimented with steel before and Jerry's styli works very good for steel, but as you can see sapphire is out of competition.
Can't say how much they will last. This needs to do different research

Good luck !
Sergey

[opcode66]

Those grooves look nice! Promising.

[uvoscillator]

hey uvoscillator nice sound!
what format do you use for embossing?

thanks ! here sounds a bit overmodulated
what do you mean 'format' ?

I can emboss all sizes, just expected how to heat big ones with hot water ))

[Gus]

sorry for my bad english
i mean what material do you use for embossing

hey uvoscillator nice sound!
what format do you use for embossing?

thanks ! here sounds a bit overmodulated
what do you mean 'format' ?

I can emboss all sizes, just expected how to heat big ones with hot water ))

[uvoscillator]

sorry for my bad english
i mean what material do you use for embossing

no problem, for me is also not native language ))
I'm embossing polycarbonate, check this forum about it, here is a lot of information
about it

[piaptk]

When I get back to Tucson, I will send some pics of the grooves I'm cutting with Jerry's cones... they look and sound really good. His current batch is really top notch when combines with lighter fluid.

[uvoscillator]

need to try again than ! and what about horns ? that is my main problem when embossing (

[morrisjer]

Those grooves look nice! Promising.

I have made some improvements since my first batch of cone needles in steel. They are more smooth, and since my PR man, Mike, has been using lighter fluid (Ronsonol in the yellow bottle) to prep the polycarbonate discs that removes gunk from the peel away plastic, he has been getting some very good cuts with my cones. He sent me a disc of some music he cut with my needles and it sounded very good.

Jerry

[tragwag]

need to try again than ! and what about horns ? that is my main problem when embossing (

I have not tested Jerry's styli yet (though I will soon), but I'm thinking you need more heat on the blank.
do you use a heat lamp?

[uvoscillator]

need to try again than ! and what about horns ? that is my main problem when embossing (

I have not tested Jerry's styli yet (though I will soon), but I'm thinking you need more heat on the blank.
do you use a heat lamp?

yep, sure! start when blank around 65C
as far I can understand heat and pressure is important in embossing, but also this two factors gives horns too.
I'm embossing with backward sapphires with about 90 degrees angle, sounds perfect, but horns...

[stanislav]

There will always be at discharge, but you harder than when cutting a groove, you can convert a 20 micron square times the pressure of the knife on this micro surface, times the surface of the disc, comes more than 100 tonnes on 12-inch plate

[piaptk]

Horns are unavoidable with embossing. If you don't want horns, you've got to cut and remove chip with a vacuum... When the material leaves the groove, it's gotta go somewhere... either up the vacuum or up to the side of the groove.

I took a record I embossed with Jerry's needles to Len Horowitz yesterday. He was blown away by the fidelity and low noise floor. However, he noticed missing highs. So he looks at the groove and said "looks more like a standard groove than a microgroove, by the shape of it". So he put a standard stylus in his cartridge and voila... here came all the highs and it sounded incredible. The highs were there, some of them just weren't able to be played by the micro stylus.

So, Jerry and I are now working to figure out how to get a stylus that cuts a groove that is closer to a microgroove.


Of course, each cut with each needle is a little different. This particular recorder was darker than many that I had cut, so the needle could have been worn down more after hours and hours of use.

Even with the limitations of the current batch, they are still an incredible bargain and will get the amateur hobbyist wanting to play with plastic much easier and consistent results than even a turned around sapphire stylus.

[uvoscillator]

I wish I can meet Len just to have talk
Yes, I also noticed, that not all playback needles plays good.

Thanks for keep us updated!

[tragwag]

I just want to add my two cents to this discussion.
I've been embossing on poly for over a year now, making lathe cut records.
I used Jerry's embossing cones for the first time this past week, and they've performed very well.
As you can see from the above posts, the groove geometry is right on.
I found the tracking, groove depth, and source volume very easy to set.
These cones are, if I had to quantify it, probably 90% as good as a sapphire for embossing in terms of sound quality, groove geometry, and ease of use. I have not tested the longevity yet.
The best part is, they are readily available, and super affordable.
I commend Jerry for taking this on, and providing a great product that virtually anyone can purchase.

(Let it be known that I have no professional affiliation with Jerry, I bought these styli on ebay for $10, like anyone else)

[Lima Victor]

I'm considering buying one of these stylii (can be found at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Record-lathe-cutter-presto-record-in-stylus-needle-styli-rek-o-kut-recorder-/281255271864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417c1eddb8 )
But i'm doubting which one to choose. Of course, i could try it out, but i'm a poor college student so if i can save $10 i will

Can the cone be used for both polyacrilate and acetate sheets? The local arts & crafts store has fairly thick acetate sheets for cheap, those are much easier to obtain than polyacrilate disks in my area. However, polyacrilate is a tried and tested material and gives nicer looking results.

I'd like to experiment with both materials, but i'm building a cutting head myself and the stylus will be permanently mounted in it. So i have to settle on one stylus. Could the embossing cone also be used for the acetate sheets? Those sheets look like overhead projection sheets but slightly thicker - a bit like the base of photographic film, without the light sensitive coating.

[budharpey]

Hi, since you will be embossing/engraving the cone will be either way the only choice. The other two types, the triangular ones, are for cutting. I haven't tried acetat sheets by myself so far because I don't know where to buy them near me, but I guess the cone will suit as well.