100% analog

Post: # 15748Unread post **GrayI** Tue Jul 05, 2011 4:34 pm

A previous post asking for 100% analog mastering engineers got me to thinking...

With new bands releasing vinyl, very few of them are actually recording analog. Now I wouldn't say that digital recordings shouldn't be released on vinyl, but there should be some sort of notice that it is not 100% analog. I would still buy an album I really like(still funner to buy records than CDs!), but it would be nice to know before i make my purchase, as it may influence my decision.
Perhaps there is room for an organization to which you can apply for "100% analog" status on your record.

Consumers have a right to know... thoughts?

-Iano

Post: # 15753Unread post **opcode66** Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:46 pm

When I transfer digital to vinyl and play it back head to head with the original digital, the vinyl sounds better every time. That's my 2 cents.

Once digital audio goes through my mastering chain, amprack and cutterhead, it almost seems to reconstruct what was lost in the original digital.

Post: # 15764Unread post **JayDC** Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:32 am

is 100% analog even possible? most studios ave something that is using DSP, even if it looks like it's not..

Post: # 15767Unread post **dietrich10** Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:50 pm

100% analog = music multitrack tape=tape mixdown to 2 channel tape=cutting room with tape machine direct to lathe

Post: # 15768Unread post **JayDC** Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:51 pm

dietrich10 wrote:100% analog = music multitrack tape=tape mixdown to 2 channel tape=cutting room with tape machine direct to lathe

yea, that all tube lyrec system would create the fresh cut.. for sure..

Post: # 15771Unread post **concretecowboy71** Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:17 pm

It would be up to a a label to promote their releases as "100% analog".

There are more than a few cutters doing this kind of work and they advertise their service on the web I am sure.

Yes, it is possible to do 100% analog with the right tape machine. Essentially, it has an extra headstack to do the delay needed for the lathe to function properly.

Personally, in the year that I have been cutting, I have had 3 requests for tape. For me to invest in the needed equipment does not fit into my business plan right now. I would have to charge a LOT of money for each cut to make it worth my while.

I love vinyl as much as the next guy. I have collected since I was 11 years old, but I do this all day, everyday. This is what I do for a living and I have to make real world choices based on what my customers want, not some pie-in-the-sky notion about digital vs. analog.

That debate has been going on for 30 years now and like I always tell people... The average person driving down the highway jamming CCR on their mp3 player does not give a rat's ass what or how that music was recorded...and whether I like it or not, people vote with the money they have in hand and it is part of my job to give them what they want.

As far as the "sound" of a Neumann lathe vs. other cutting systems, I think the Billboard Top 40 chart from years gone by would prove that plenty of record buyers in the past were fine with the way they sound.

As far as changing a stylus after every cut...NOBODY has ever suggested that to me. Even the Neumann manual gives you a 20 hour suggestion for changing your stylus.

Post: # 15776Unread post **JayDC** Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:27 pm

i learned a trick.. it will give your digital recording "analog warmth".. i'm keeping it as a trade secret right now, since I need a job.. if I end up being a fireman instead of a mastering engineer, I'll fill you in secretly..

Post: # 15863Unread post **Steve E.** Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:22 pm

Many of the tangents in this thread have been moved to the Treehouse in a thread titled "JayDC Huffing Helium":

https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?p=15755

Post: # 15865Unread post **opcode66** Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:24 pm

Including a nice bit where I'm called both an idiot and a dumb ass. Lovely.

Post: # 15867Unread post **Nickou** Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:41 pm

opcode66 wrote:Including a nice bit where I'm called both an idiot and a dumb ass. Lovely.

100% analog ?

Post: # 15879Unread post **Steve E.** Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:14 pm

??I thought I removed that....

Post: # 16032Unread post **TotalSonic** Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:49 pm

100% analog can be done in a couple different ways - either with fixed or manual pitch so that only a single signal path from the analog source is needed - or via a preview tape deck with an initial "preview" playback head going to the pitch/depth computer, followed by extra capstans allowing the tape path to be extended an appropriate amount for a delay, and then a "program" playback head sending the signal to the cutter head. Preview decks were made by Telefunken, Studer, and Sony/MCI (such as my JH110M - photo below), and I've seen some mod Ampex ATR decks as well.

As far as studios equipped with preview decks that can do all analog mastering in the USA there is:
http://www.saltmastering.com
http://www.masterdisk.com
http://www.sterlingsound.com
http://www.themasteringlab.com

...and possibly a few more I've forgotten in that list as well.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Post: # 16040Unread post **Kris D** Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:22 pm

Hi - At groove-O-matic in Seattle we offer mono 100% analog mastering. We use Ampex 350 and 351 1/4 inch full track machines at 15 or 30 IPS. We can do half speed cutting of 30 IPS tape using constant flux equalization on a belt driven 8D with 2 speed motor. NAB equalization is available for full speed work. Lathes consist of a Presto 8D with belt driven platter, variable pitch control and Grampian 1C driven by a Mcintosh 50W2. A Presto 8DG with direct drive platter and Gotham/Grampian feedback system. RCA and Altec limiters are employed also. 1/2 inch 3 track transfer and mix down is also available. We are currently rebuilding an Arcturus with a Westrex 2B that should be on line shortly*

*thats in "lathe time" so don't hold your breath!!

- Kris

Post: # 16128Unread post **Lex** Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:30 pm

Intresting post and it is true that more people ask about it.
I also can cut 100% Analog using an A80 preview machine (came from Town House London) and it is the model for the VMS 80.
I just did an album on that last week, waiting for the test pressings right now.

Lex

www.thevinylroom.nl

Post: # 16292Unread post **philbrown** Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:28 pm

[quote="TotalSonic"] Preview decks were made by Telefunken, Studer, and Sony/MCI (such as my JH110M - photo below), and I've seen some mod Ampex ATR decks as well.

Who has one? Even Ampex couldn't figure out how to put a preview head on an ATR and developed a digital delay line for the program signal for cutting. CBS decided a preview wasn't needed for reasons too involved to go into now and designed the Compudisc system as a result.
Phil Brown

Post: # 16308Unread post **TotalSonic** Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:48 pm

philbrown wrote:
TotalSonic wrote: Preview decks were made by Telefunken, Studer, and Sony/MCI (such as my JH110M - photo below), and I've seen some mod Ampex ATR decks as well.

Who has one? Even Ampex couldn't figure out how to put a preview head on an ATR and developed a digital delay line for the program signal for cutting. CBS decided a preview wasn't needed for reasons too involved to go into now and designed the Compudisc system as a result.
Phil Brown

Phil - actually I might have provided incorrect info on that in that the custom modded preview deck I was thinking of was in fact a one-of-a-kind Studer 1" 2-track and not an Ampex.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Post: # 16336Unread post **gold** Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:44 pm

philbrown wrote: Who has one? Even Ampex couldn't figure out how to put a preview head on an ATR and developed a digital delay line for the program signal for cutting.

ATR Services, the company that remanufactures the ATR 102 made an ATR 102 preview deck for Sterling Sound. They manufactured an extended deck plate with an extra roller for the shortest delay time needed. In operation they put a digital delay on the short preview signal to get the desired delay. I believe it is the only one.

Post: # 16439Unread post **philbrown** Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:18 am

gold wrote:
philbrown wrote: Who has one? Even Ampex couldn't figure out how to put a preview head on an ATR and developed a digital delay line for the program signal for cutting.
ATR Services, the company that remanufactures the ATR 102 made an ATR 102 preview deck for Sterling Sound. They manufactured an extended deck plate with an extra roller for the shortest delay time needed. In operation they put a digital delay on the short preview signal to get the desired delay. I believe it is the only one.

Sorry, I think you're confused. If you delay the preview you negate the preview effect.
Phil Brown

Post: # 16440Unread post **gold** Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:37 pm

philbrown wrote: Sorry, I think you're confused. If you delay the preview you negate the preview effect.

Try this. They put a single roller for the longest delay time necessary and use a DDL to get the rest.

Post: # 16443Unread post **Nickou** Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:16 am

gold wrote:
philbrown wrote: Sorry, I think you're confused. If you delay the preview you negate the preview effect.
Try this. They put a single roller for the longest delay time necessary and use a DDL to get the rest.

Yes , I am building a preview deck for my c37 , I have around 20 inch of tape between the 2 heads , more than what I need , and I use a DDL to adjust the delay time to any requirement.
I works and the sound stay 100 % analog