Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
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Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Hello all, my name is Dave. Not only am I new here, but I am only recently aware of the existence of such a thing as a home record lathe. On a scale of 0 - 10, I would rate my knowledge of electronics in the 2-3 range. I've followed paint-by-numbers instructions to recap a guitar amp, and I have an old Lafayette tube tester I'm learning to use.
My wife just bought me a Recordette Sr model IJ10 at a garage sale for $3. She didn't know what it was, but she knows to buy anything with tubes and ask questions later. It needs work, and I would like to try to resuscitate this little guy. The platter turns, but after a minute or so I heard a bubbling/sizzling sound. When I opened it up, I'm pretty sure I found the culprit - it appears goo has been dripping from the power transformer (see photos below). The only markings I see on the transformer are the numbers 80-2194 and 306015 and an insignia composed of the letters STC. Anyone know what I need to replace it with?
I realize from reading several of the posts here that the crystal in the cartridge is probably shot, so I'll need to either send it off to West-Tech or attempt the piezo thing myself. There was no cutting stylus, and the playback "stylus" that's currently installed looks like a piece of bent wire (turn your head 90 degrees left and see photo).
Aside from testing the tubes, what other concerns need to be on the front burner? Thanks in advance for your input!
Dave
[YouTube2]https://youtu.be/6lOTwkDgnro[/YouTube2]
My wife just bought me a Recordette Sr model IJ10 at a garage sale for $3. She didn't know what it was, but she knows to buy anything with tubes and ask questions later. It needs work, and I would like to try to resuscitate this little guy. The platter turns, but after a minute or so I heard a bubbling/sizzling sound. When I opened it up, I'm pretty sure I found the culprit - it appears goo has been dripping from the power transformer (see photos below). The only markings I see on the transformer are the numbers 80-2194 and 306015 and an insignia composed of the letters STC. Anyone know what I need to replace it with?
I realize from reading several of the posts here that the crystal in the cartridge is probably shot, so I'll need to either send it off to West-Tech or attempt the piezo thing myself. There was no cutting stylus, and the playback "stylus" that's currently installed looks like a piece of bent wire (turn your head 90 degrees left and see photo).
Aside from testing the tubes, what other concerns need to be on the front burner? Thanks in advance for your input!
Dave
[YouTube2]https://youtu.be/6lOTwkDgnro[/YouTube2]
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Hi,
You can probably find something from Hammond that will work for you.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/claspg.htm
You may have to modify the chassis to make the sub fit.
I would also recap the machine. I would bet that the filter cap after the rectifier is shorted and that caused the transformer to fry. Always a bad idea to just power up a vintage piece of tube equipment without doing some basic checks first. I would not put too much stock in the consumer tube testers. Other that finding a totally dead tube, they really don't do a good job of predicting performance in circuit. They were good for driving the sale of replacement tubes back in the day. I would replace the rectifier since the transformer failure likely stressed this tube.
Good luck with the project.
Mark
You can probably find something from Hammond that will work for you.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/claspg.htm
You may have to modify the chassis to make the sub fit.
I would also recap the machine. I would bet that the filter cap after the rectifier is shorted and that caused the transformer to fry. Always a bad idea to just power up a vintage piece of tube equipment without doing some basic checks first. I would not put too much stock in the consumer tube testers. Other that finding a totally dead tube, they really don't do a good job of predicting performance in circuit. They were good for driving the sale of replacement tubes back in the day. I would replace the rectifier since the transformer failure likely stressed this tube.
Good luck with the project.
Mark
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Thanks for your input Mark. I am at a loss, however, as to what to look for at Hammond. I've attached a better shot of the markings on the existing transformer and the tube layout. I don't know if Hammond is in the habit of providing tech support, but would they be willing/able to help me figure out what I need based in this info?
-Dave
-Dave
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Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Hi,
I did some checking based on the tube complement. It looks to me like the Hammond 269AX would work for you (see the PDF attached). I base this on the application info in the RCA tube manual for a typical power supply using the 6X4 rectifier. If you look at the PDF I scanned, refer to power supply type 2 and filter 3. The last entry in the table indicates 240-0-240 Vrms secondary is needed. If you add up all of the filament currents for the tubes, you get about 2A. So the 269AX looks to fill the bill. See the drawing fro the physical details. Its unlikely that the mounting holes will be the same as your current transformer, but you should still be able to make this work. I would also check out the 261G6. It has pretty much the same specs, but a simpler mounting style. It may be less expensive. If you can get the Sams Photofact or other service data, we might be able to get a better match, but I think this is a good sub. I doubt Hammond will be of much help here, but you could give them a call.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/261.htm
Mark
I did some checking based on the tube complement. It looks to me like the Hammond 269AX would work for you (see the PDF attached). I base this on the application info in the RCA tube manual for a typical power supply using the 6X4 rectifier. If you look at the PDF I scanned, refer to power supply type 2 and filter 3. The last entry in the table indicates 240-0-240 Vrms secondary is needed. If you add up all of the filament currents for the tubes, you get about 2A. So the 269AX looks to fill the bill. See the drawing fro the physical details. Its unlikely that the mounting holes will be the same as your current transformer, but you should still be able to make this work. I would also check out the 261G6. It has pretty much the same specs, but a simpler mounting style. It may be less expensive. If you can get the Sams Photofact or other service data, we might be able to get a better match, but I think this is a good sub. I doubt Hammond will be of much help here, but you could give them a call.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/261.htm
Mark
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Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Thanks, Mark! That's the info I needed to get this project under way.
- EpicenterBryan
- Posts: 738
- Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:01 pm
- Location: Eugene, OR USA
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
I have a spare power transformer with the following specs:
117VAC 0.8A Primary.
500VCT (250 - 0 -250) @0.08ADC.
6.3VAC @5A
Made by FREED, P/N 19858
Was used in circuit that had a 6X4.
Make me an offer.
117VAC 0.8A Primary.
500VCT (250 - 0 -250) @0.08ADC.
6.3VAC @5A
Made by FREED, P/N 19858
Was used in circuit that had a 6X4.
Make me an offer.
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- Mr.McSwift
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:38 pm
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
I Had the same exact problem. Have you tried the trans former yet? Also The one that was burning up on mine was not the main power transformer it is either a IF transformer or the output transformer. The numbers on mine are not exactly the same as what you show but are very similar. I would love to git it working but I too have little electronics experience and with it burnt out already i do not even know how you could do a resistance test on it to see what to replace it with. I Have seen some transformers designed for TUBE amps that look very similar and are reasonably priced but i dont dare just put one in? Most of the capacitors seem to be readily available so i will replace those but really need an experts advise for the transformer?
Thanks
Thanks
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Hi,
The IF transformers rarely burn up. Also, they are part of the radio circuit, so not very important unless you want to record AM broadcasts. I assume its the output transformer that is the problem. That should be easy to source from Hammond. Do you have the schematic? If so, we can probably help you select the best sub.
Mark
The IF transformers rarely burn up. Also, they are part of the radio circuit, so not very important unless you want to record AM broadcasts. I assume its the output transformer that is the problem. That should be easy to source from Hammond. Do you have the schematic? If so, we can probably help you select the best sub.
Mark
- Mr.McSwift
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:38 pm
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Here is the Schematic. Thanks
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Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Hi,
Looks like Hammond has a nice universal output transformer that should for well for your application. I think either the 125BSE or 125CSE ( 5 or 8 watt) versions will work. I'd go with the 8 watt version if it will fit.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/125SE.htm
There are multiple output taps to match plate resistance (5000 ohms) of the 6AQ5 to the speaker impedance (8 ohms??). See the datasheet for hookup info.
Mark
Looks like Hammond has a nice universal output transformer that should for well for your application. I think either the 125BSE or 125CSE ( 5 or 8 watt) versions will work. I'd go with the 8 watt version if it will fit.
http://www.hammondmfg.com/125SE.htm
There are multiple output taps to match plate resistance (5000 ohms) of the 6AQ5 to the speaker impedance (8 ohms??). See the datasheet for hookup info.
Mark
- Mr.McSwift
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:38 pm
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Thanks for the help. I was talking with a local radio repair man and he informed me that some of the cutters have a dual purpose transformer that drives the crystal and the speaker. It appears to me that this has a separate one for each? Again not knowing how to read the schematic Im just basing this on what it looks like inside. Does it appear that way to you? If so im assuming the one that burned up goes to the speaker because i get no sound not even static. He also told me that an IF transformer would not look like a transformer at all. if that is the case then there has to be two separate ones because there are two in there plus the main power transformer.
On a completely different note has any one ever tried to slow down the turn table speed on one of these to make it 33 speed? If so how was this accomplished Mechanically or with some sort of motor resistor?
Thanks Again For all the help and info.
On a completely different note has any one ever tried to slow down the turn table speed on one of these to make it 33 speed? If so how was this accomplished Mechanically or with some sort of motor resistor?
Thanks Again For all the help and info.
Re: Wilcox-Gay Recordette Sr in need of help
Hi,
The third device is a power supply choke (Shown as L4 on the schematic). On cutters with crystal heads, the head is driven directly from the output tube plate. These heads are high impedance, while the speaker is low impedance and needs the output transformer to interface to the speaker. To get this back to running, you really need to have somebody that knows tube electronics go through the unit from top to bottom. Given the age, it may need new capacitors. One or more tubes could be bad. Replacing the output transformer without first doing some basic testing, might be a costly error.
The motor used on these were typically shaded pole induction motors. They can't be slowed down using a resistor or by adjusting the motor voltage. They can be controlled with an VFD (variable frequency drive). However, its probably not worth the cost to do so. The other way would be to modify the motor pulley diameter. Again, this may prove to be too difficult to do on this type of machine. I'd restore it as is first and then see if you want to sing more money into it.
Mark
The third device is a power supply choke (Shown as L4 on the schematic). On cutters with crystal heads, the head is driven directly from the output tube plate. These heads are high impedance, while the speaker is low impedance and needs the output transformer to interface to the speaker. To get this back to running, you really need to have somebody that knows tube electronics go through the unit from top to bottom. Given the age, it may need new capacitors. One or more tubes could be bad. Replacing the output transformer without first doing some basic testing, might be a costly error.
The motor used on these were typically shaded pole induction motors. They can't be slowed down using a resistor or by adjusting the motor voltage. They can be controlled with an VFD (variable frequency drive). However, its probably not worth the cost to do so. The other way would be to modify the motor pulley diameter. Again, this may prove to be too difficult to do on this type of machine. I'd restore it as is first and then see if you want to sing more money into it.
Mark