I didnt know they made these..
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Neumann-R21-Vinyl-Lathe-Cutter-Telefunken-EMT-Era-/300774932333?pt=Antike_Musikinstrumente&hash=item4607953f6d
Neumann R21 lathe
Moderators: piaptk, tragwag, Steve E., Aussie0zborn
Wow! That is really interesting. Immaculate condition. This definitely came before the "baby" Neumann AM131. Really keen to know more about this guy.
Josh Bonati
www.bonatimastering.com
www.bonatimastering.com
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dietrich10
- Posts: 841
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:18 pm
- Location: usa
- Contact:
Hey all here
These machine where used by the Abwehr during the second world war the spy network in Germany run by Admiral Canaris
Just like the enigma machine they where a restricted item not available to all and sundry although early versions of the enigma where sold to the public
I am sure some of these would have been in the hands of individuals before the hostilities started
They where used to record interrogations of high level prisoners or for covert recordings of conversations taking place wherever these people thought it would yield information
The tape recorder which was in parallel development at the time took over from these machines but no doubt there was quite a few around in use well after that invention of ferrite tape as against the wire recorder which was available
Lets not Forget that Ampex did start with a copy of one of those tape recorders bought back by Bing Crosby who also funded the operation and took Les Paul under his design/engineering team
Electric guitars use a variant of the tape head which was first introduced by the man
Reading volumes of history it seems these where only sold to those organization/people with high levels of authority
The British had a very similar setup as well as the USA counter whatever body's so its application recording interrogations was not a unique German idea
I did post a link here to an American setup where stacks of Presto's where used to do the same thing in a prisoner of war camp, a while back but
Nice find as I have only ever seen a photo of one a long time ago in a book related to spying rather than record cutting
Cheers
These machine where used by the Abwehr during the second world war the spy network in Germany run by Admiral Canaris
Just like the enigma machine they where a restricted item not available to all and sundry although early versions of the enigma where sold to the public
I am sure some of these would have been in the hands of individuals before the hostilities started
They where used to record interrogations of high level prisoners or for covert recordings of conversations taking place wherever these people thought it would yield information
The tape recorder which was in parallel development at the time took over from these machines but no doubt there was quite a few around in use well after that invention of ferrite tape as against the wire recorder which was available
Lets not Forget that Ampex did start with a copy of one of those tape recorders bought back by Bing Crosby who also funded the operation and took Les Paul under his design/engineering team
Electric guitars use a variant of the tape head which was first introduced by the man
Reading volumes of history it seems these where only sold to those organization/people with high levels of authority
The British had a very similar setup as well as the USA counter whatever body's so its application recording interrogations was not a unique German idea
I did post a link here to an American setup where stacks of Presto's where used to do the same thing in a prisoner of war camp, a while back but
Nice find as I have only ever seen a photo of one a long time ago in a book related to spying rather than record cutting
Cheers
Chris
I know what you mean, Mossboss, and certainly don't want this forum to be harangued by "fact-checkers," (or do I?), but, at least so as not to confuse our readers, let us specify that it was Admiral Jack "Laugh Track" Mullin who absconded with the two AEG Magnetophones from Frankfurt and took them to California for back-engineering. According to the great Wikipedia, it was during Mullin's second LA area demonstration that Bing Crosby was in the audience and began involvement with the effort.mossboss wrote:...
Lets not Forget that Ampex did start with a copy of one of those tape recorders bought back by Bing Crosby who also funded the operation and took Les Paul under his design/engineering team...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Mullin
-Les Neumann
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
crisis or not, the seller is actually the same annoying HiFi collector from switzerland that had the strange swiss lathe with Ortofon cutterhead and tube amp on ebay before. Let's see how high this one will hike..... 
Mossy is probably right about the uses of the R21 in the various german "organizations" during WWII. But I don't think the R21 was at any point a "restricted" or "secret" machine, as opposed to the tape recorders with HF bias when they were developed (by accident) in the early 1940ies. There is a picture and description of the R21 in the "Elektroakustisches Taschenbuch" (published by Neumann GmbH in 1943, 14.000 copies printed). Suggested primary use: news reports
Mossy is probably right about the uses of the R21 in the various german "organizations" during WWII. But I don't think the R21 was at any point a "restricted" or "secret" machine, as opposed to the tape recorders with HF bias when they were developed (by accident) in the early 1940ies. There is a picture and description of the R21 in the "Elektroakustisches Taschenbuch" (published by Neumann GmbH in 1943, 14.000 copies printed). Suggested primary use: news reports
Last edited by subkontrabob on Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yes nice story about the "organisations" but this lathe was around all over germany before...
it was one of many lathes used to record sound. i have a few books from the mid 30ies with full of advertisment of all those lathes.
and as subkontrabob mentioned is was also in the neumann book.
about tape.
even the ac bias was already patented in 1921
us patent 1,640,881
and the AEG K1 tape recorder was shown in public 1935....i guess there where a few tech geeks from all over the world there...
and there is a super expensive but great book about history of german tape manufacturers...they produced a lot of tape from 1935 onwards...
and 1938 AEG sent one of their tape machines to new york..so people from GE could test it out...feedback from the guys in US was "this tape is not for professional use "haha.
in the same year german broadcast switched totaly to tape...
cutting laquers on such a telefunken r21 was then just for amateurs...maybe already cheap surplus item...
but again nice found and good pictures.. wondering who will buy it..hehe.
the other "günther ortofon" lathe he still not sold. i was asking and he said its under restauration..whatever that means and what happens later with it...
it was one of many lathes used to record sound. i have a few books from the mid 30ies with full of advertisment of all those lathes.
and as subkontrabob mentioned is was also in the neumann book.
about tape.
even the ac bias was already patented in 1921
us patent 1,640,881
and the AEG K1 tape recorder was shown in public 1935....i guess there where a few tech geeks from all over the world there...
and there is a super expensive but great book about history of german tape manufacturers...they produced a lot of tape from 1935 onwards...
and 1938 AEG sent one of their tape machines to new york..so people from GE could test it out...feedback from the guys in US was "this tape is not for professional use "haha.
in the same year german broadcast switched totaly to tape...
cutting laquers on such a telefunken r21 was then just for amateurs...maybe already cheap surplus item...
but again nice found and good pictures.. wondering who will buy it..hehe.
the other "günther ortofon" lathe he still not sold. i was asking and he said its under restauration..whatever that means and what happens later with it...