Ebay: Neumann VMS70

[pandapolar]

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=281483775136&alt=web

not my auction but will be interesting

[dietrich10]

No head or amps...

[audiocarver]

Looks like the vacuum pump is also missing?

[Aussie0zborn]

Another lathe without cutting head and amps with a STARTING BID of US $30,000.

Starting bid is double the starting bid the last time they listed it.

[ROLANDJAYS]

no sale !

[audiocarver]

What is so incredible to me about it, as it stands right now in the photos, you could NOT even use the thing as a turntable!

All----for the unbelievably low asking price of $30,000!

[dietrich10]

The VMS70 looks complete to me with the exception of the head and amp rack.

Sorry to say Trolls but it could sell for the asking-20k would make it a winner for me. I honestly feel the 2014 market for a complete VMS70 is 40-60k. The business is thriving..as long as the youth do not get tired of not getting instant gratification with the wait times.

[powerstrip]

Dietrich is right.

Everyone puffing smoke and stamping feet about steep prices: If you don't want it, don't buy it and don't raise hell about it.

what about this type of behavior? It's nothing we haven't seen before. People wanting millions for this stuff. but it sits forever.





It's just like this: If you're running a painting business and someone is offering you $3000 to paint a Three story tudor house, Just laugh and keep walking.

[Cubed]

I agree powerstrip.

The only downside is for people like me who are looking for a machine to begin with or for parts. People who set these high prices encourage other sellers with equivalent equipment to raise their prices too. Some of these lathes are often in disrepair and they expect to get as much as a working unit goes for. And a lot of these nonworking lathes will end up as that. Hence the cycle of inflating a price on something that's broken for new sellers who run into stuff like this. Unfortunately there's people who are so eager and buy overpriced lathes, never gets it working and either shelve it or sell it around the same price.

And for the record, if it's "rare", it doesn't mean is valuable or sought after for. There's a difference of "rare" and sought after. There's always one sucker that buys an overpriced pre or turntable. Those sellers will keep those prices up because they know one day an idiot would and make a killing with a crazy mark up like that.

Sorry to divulge but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents especially with the rare nonsense.

[ROLANDJAYS]

In a few years , I predict the record market will drop . This is a new trend people are jumping into . Its hot sheet right now !! C'mon!

[jjgolden]

What's shipping cost from Russia?
Will it be dismantled and packed/crated up properly or just shoved in a wooden box to arrive as scrap metal?
Do you have leads on a working Head and amps?
Some thing to consider for the prospective newbie buyer...

[dietrich10]

In a few years , I predict the record market will drop . This is a new trend people are jumping into . Its hot sheet right now !! C'mon!

but it is not like there are 1000s of Neumanns.....value would go back to the 30k region if industry slows down

[concretecowboy71]

The condition of what is in the photos is pretty nice. I would like some of the trim panels that this has. The paint still has a nice gloss to it.

Missing some parts for sure. The biggest issue for me is getting it out of Russia. I had a machine shipped from the Netherlands and lost a lot of sleep waiting for that to arrive. Russia is a whole other story.

My father gave me great advice as a young junk picker many years ago. "Something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay"...I have carried that with me my whole life and it has always been and will remain true.

If nobody buys it for that price, then it is not worth it....if somebody does buy it, then it is worth it.

I don't know why there is so much harping about prices here. In the world of second hand/used sales of anything, the seller wants as much as possible and the buyer wants to purchase it as low as possible. What happens in between is called NEGOTIATION. If you are not the type that likes to haggle, then you are at the mercy of what people will ask. I am not one of those people. When I paid Al for my machine, he was going to charge me for some stuff we never talked about...I opened my mouth and ended up getting those items thrown in.

If you are serious about this business, write a business plan and see what you could actually put into a machine...then pay it off and stop worrying about it. It is a tool. Craftspeople buy the best tools they can afford so they do not have to keep investing in them over and over again. That is what these machines represent. An investment by their owner in their trade. In under 3 years, I bought 2 machines, invested a lot into the second machine and they are currently paid for. Really 30k-50k for one of these is chump change when viewed in the perspective of how much revenue it will bring in over its lifetime. Think about spending 30k on a car...it is worth essentially NOTHING when you are done with it. I consider that wasting money.

If you cut records as a hobby, then hopefully you have a shit ton of disposable income...sorry for the rant, but let people ask what they want. The true judge of worth is what items have SOLD for.

[audiocarver]

I guess that's my problem then.....maybe I'm stuck in the past about 10~15 years ago or so when you could buy such a lathe that was running from somebody like Al and if there was a problem, you could call him back and ask.

The fact it doesn't have cutting head or amps isn't a sticking point for me either really. If he has some of the other missing pieces then I might pull the trigger myself---and I will haggle about the price!

But this would be my first time buying anything out of Russia.....not sure how on earth that will go?

I've purchased several things out of the Netherlands; England and I just bought a pair of compressor/limiters out of Germany about 4 weeks ago, everything was fine there.

Thanks for the pep talk!

Regards,
Andy

[dietrich10]

the only lathe piece i see missing is the chip jar. you should put new vacuum hoses/tubes on by default so that should not be a game changer. a new chip jar can be made or found.

[smithadamm]

Really 30k-50k for one of these is chump change when viewed in the perspective of how much revenue it will bring in over its lifetime. Think about spending 30k on a car...it is worth essentially NOTHING when you are done with it. .

I agree with what you are saying. However, I think one point that always gets left out in this discussion is that we are basically doing all of this in a cash economy and our business model relies on unreliable equipment, unobtainable spare parts and an aging expert technician population based infrastructure. Econ 101 wise, I would think that would keep a cap on prices. But yeah, I agree that a business needs its tools and the market will decide what things are worth.

[concretecowboy71]

The machine itself is not unreliable, the wear and tear we put on it does that. Parts are just parts. I have not seen one that cannot be replaced or remade yet.

I also believe it is up to us to stick together and learn information from those that came before us. I think people like floski and opcode are a vital link to keeping these things going while also pushing the capabilities of these machines beyond the technology that was around when they were created.

I would not want to ship something from Russia myself, but none of this is for the faint of heart. if it speaks to you, go for it, but dont forget to haggle!

[opcode66]

[smithadamm]

The machine itself is not unreliable, the wear and tear we put on it does that. Parts are just parts. I have not seen one that cannot be replaced or remade yet.

I also believe it is up to us to stick together and learn information from those that came before us. I think people like floski and opcode are a vital link to keeping these things going while also pushing the capabilities of these machines beyond the technology that was around when they were created.

This is all true. I was kind of exaggerating to make a point, but what I'm getting at is 20-50k is not an unreasonable amount to pay for a machine, but once you get much past that you are getting into the realm of needing a lot of financing to get going. Beyond what most people can reasonably save or borrow from friends/family. At that point you need investors or bank loans and the like. These machines aren't brand new General Motors industrial widget makers, these are old machines that have all been rode hard and put up wet and when they break you have to track down obscure parts or get new parts fabricated and pay top dollar and if you need a tech for some of the specialized stuff like head rewinding, you are at the mercy of one, maybe two guys in the world. I think what gets glossed over a lot of the time is that you can't apply math that is as simple as this thing can generate 75k in a year so 150k for one is a steal. There are many many more unknown quantities, unknown quantities make banks and investors nervous. So, that, in theory, should keep the price of a lathe in the cash market realm. I'm not sure where the cap on that is, but I think that is what we're working with. That's all I'm saying. And I'm not really making a point about anything as much as I'm spit-balling about where the cap on the price of a typical professional lathe is.

[powerstrip]

This is a new trend people are jumping into .

Uhhh... yeah it's a new trend alright. 1877 baby. Hot shite.