pressed or cut

[MEGAMIKE]

Hello all
we have started a small business with my freind cutting records with our lovely vinylrecorder and have had no problems at all ...the only problem we have is that people seem to think and tell us all the time that pressed records are better than lathe cut polys..and persue the pressed ones instead of cut ones..
am i wrong too think this,is a copy of a copy of a copy better than a poly master lathe cut???
sorry to confuse you all
thanks let me know but it has probly been spoken of on here before ..

[emorritt]

Poly disks have never performed well IMHO. I've cut them before, tried several different setups to try to minimize surface noise, different pre-emphasis settings, etc. but the bottom line is when you're trying to carve through a very hard substance like polycarbonate or pre-pressed vinyl you aren't going to get the best results as you would from a lacquer. The surface is noisy because of the nature of the beast; you're trying to carve a fine groove in a very, very hard substance. With the correct stylus angle, heat setting etc. you can get good results, but you simply won't get the low noise floor of a lacquer or high end response because of the resistance of the hard material to being cut which hampers fast, small vibrations.

As far as the "copy of a copy of a copy" - records aren't like tapes, but really more like digital in that respect. Once the original recording is made, the plating process makes as close an exact replica to the original vibrations as you can get. There are small changes, but nothing as radical as dubbing a tape to a tape to a tape as in your analogy. It's closer to the 'replication of data' as in copying a CD or DVD - you're taking a set of data and re-writing the same data on another piece of media. Plating and pressing doesn't actually radically degrade the recorded sound as does running a signal through the mod/demod circuitry of a tape recorder in order to reproduce/record magnetically. (Although Stokowski got pissed at the Victor processing plant for aggressively buffing the metalwork to the point they were buffing high frequencies right off the recording!) The same thing as with tape happens to a degree if you cut a record, then play that record and cut another, take the copy, play it, cut another, etc. It does cause generational loss to some degree. However, cutting a master then making a set of metalwork and pressing copies is basically copying information as close to the digital analogy as the analog domain gets, and not reproducing and re-recording it.

[MEGAMIKE]

thankyou emorritt for the great knowledge..
but i do not have any backround noise at all i can send u a test cut if you like.(pm me ur adress).now i realise why souri dont sell blanks.but when i cut on that lexan? transperant(from souri aswell) there is little backround noise ,but when i cut on any of the black blanks there is no backround noise..hmmmmm..

[MEGAMIKE]

but i have not cut a lacquer so how can i judge it!?

[Aussie0zborn]

Mike, lets break this down a little and you will get an idea of how to sell it. You're cutting a disc and selling it. This is a first generation copy of the master and there is no noise induced through plating or pressing.

You cut another disc, plate it and press it and there will be some surface noise, maybe some pops and ticks, etc. It is possible to introduce hiss in a record through plating - I know, I've done it.

So what you're selling is a direct cut and not a third generation copy of a direct cut. Generation here is not as in tape generations but generations as in maklng a mould from a mould and then moulding a piece of vinyl to replicate the original master disc, which you can deliver directly without this long process. I am assuming that you make nice cuts without surface noise.

For your own reference, you need to cut onto a lacquer disc. On playback you will look twice to see if the needle has hit the disc because you will not (should not) hear any surface noise or rumble that you usually hear when playing a vinly record. If the music doesn't start playing back at that point, you will look to see if the volume control is up. Try it... this experience will help to take you to the next level. You will gain more confidence in selling your service because you will be sure that such comments are unfounded.

I dont mean to sound arrogant but DJs are amongst the most ignorant people I have come across in the industry, particularly where you are. I was a in a DJ shop in Perth once when this DJ-type heard us talking about Rane DJ mixers. He intervened to say they were no good because they were "not fully featured". Like... they didnt have inbuilt beat counters and other such nonsense. If you look at the spec of any Rane product you will see that the sonic quality is right up there with the rest of the pro audio gear that Rane makes. So, if you are dealing with these types you have a long hard battle ahead of you.

You might cut a hot tune that is not yet downloadable and distribute it to key DJs in Perth as a means of introducing them to your product. Good luck and keep at it.

[MEGAMIKE]

thanks ozzy i will try ,and yes people from perth are digital sellouts ,there are sellouts in every city! the only people interested here are bboys rastas and punks,oh and one deathmetal guy . and thats beacuse they all use analoge instruments to write there music.

there needs to be a lathe battle .everybody cut a poly of the same song downloaded from the same site and sends it to ?say stevespinola to judge..hahah

[Tron]

Hey Mike

I think the main thing is if you are getting a HIFI CUT and its clean or comparable to a pressed record you need to tell you clients that because the skepticalness comes in from a preconcieved notion that a lathe cut is some how subpar to pressing. Which in the past surely it is, but if you got good clean cuts you need to let them see that and prove them wrong. Then it's a matter of cost comparing. Which tends to dictate for many.

If you got something going thats good make sure people know that for sure, as many people based what they know abot lathe cuts on old ideas. Don't forget there are many in the Society privy to Secrets that yield knowledge beyond that of the average Johnny wants to press a record type person.

show them.