Factors affecting max cutting levels, etc.

[fraggle]

Hmm I always cut at +3db with the kinsgton...

[opcode66]

opcode: with all respect, "A groove at peak volume is about 7 mils"... what are you talking about!!!! vertical, lateral... mono, out of phase..... what are you basing yourself on to say this. this is very relative. is that off a neumann cutting manual? maximum vertical modulation before cutting into the aluminum center of the disk.. maximum level ever? please clarify.
Leo

That would be groove width. And width is double height. Or, height is half of width. Whichever way you want to look at it. It is due to
the triangular shape of the sapphire and the resulting cut groove.

I don't really think I was lecturing. I was the one who actually correctly identified one component of his problem. I think I was actually being helpful.

[Nickou]

hello carter,

contact flo or jvo before doing anything like this yet.

best,
Leo

I think Leo is right , flozky or JVO are the people to contact , simply because they designed and builded this machine.

[dietrich10]

1- what are you using for vu meters to know what level you are cutting?

2- you should setup high pass and low pass filters in your audio chain.
try starting 40hz and 17k.

take Leo advice on which fuse. but seems odd you cannot cut +3 peaks on that system

[carter]

leo, the fuses are 500mA, 250V, slowblow. these are the ones that ship with the cutter as spares.

i compared my cuts to kim's by playing two cuts of the same track (one he cut, one i cut), and just comparing peak levels - his were 2-3db above mine.

again, all my cuts where the fuses don't blow are totally acceptable, other than the output level, which i'd like to improve. i really think opcode put me on the right track with the de-essing suggestion.

dietrich, i'm using the VU meter on the VC200

fraggle, i'm very interested with your experiences - how do you process your audio prior to cutting - any de-essing or rolloff outside what the VC200 does?

and, do you know how to change the eq parameters in the VC200? like i said originally, i wouldn't mind bringing it down from 18k to 15k since i've pounded my ears into retreat over the years.

the most recent blown fuses came when cutting straight from a commercially released cd - not from a computer, and with no processing. again, listening back, the first fuse failed immediately after a strong vocal ess, then the second one went after the next such ess.

in addition to cutting some unreleased material from master sources, i'm going to be cutting a fair amount of material only available on cd, so that i can play it out when i deejay (don't anyone suggest serato), so i'm going to be working with a large amount of material where i have no multitrack source - just the available stereo mix.

[leo gonzalez]

they'll probably going to tell you to raise that fuse rating to 750mA Fast. but dont do it till you hear from them.

read this for now till you get in touch with vinylium.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

remember that with riaa cutting curve engaged at 10khz you have a boost +15/+16db on those fequencies. listen to the feedback coils on the return path from the head, don't let the highs sound scratchy or distorted with the riaa on. make sure of that! use your ears too as an extra protection meter. you need experience doing that but you'll be able to tell if the highs are to hot by listening and focusing on them. see if you can reach louder levels first within the lows.

get a nab test tone record too!

[carter]

i'm not going to use different fuses unless flo or someone intimately familiar with the SC99/VC200 says it's ok. and again, i've haven't yet tried to cut anything processed with a de-esser. it's going to take a little time for me to get that going, maybe this weekend.

[fraggle]

hey mate
just quick i don't have much time.
you should be able to cut up to + db if you don't have any peaks in your tracks. desser or limiter is good i use cubase for that. but i wanna get a hardware one.
there ones which cut the peaks up front(sorry for my english):)
it's just mastering mate.
anyway i blew fuses too but just when my level was over + db
i think second over +db and it blows.
I still want to get more volume in the groove mate:)
so if you cannot cut + db you should call vinylium.
I would not change the fuses mate
tell me your experience when you called them they are good guys mate.
cheers boris

[flozki]

hmm not sure if your system is measured in propperly.
also it depends on the track. a 16-17k roll of helps... or dessing or whaterver
if you have problems with cutting any material more than +3db then you shoudl check.

i always use 630mA fast acting fuses....
but some prefer 500mA slow blow.

the cutterhead should withstand 500mA for an hour or so....but if you blow a 500ma slow blow you normally have peaks much higher. could be 3-4 amps peaks easy...

[fraggle]

hi flozki
How can i modify this cutter so i can cut more than +db?
cheers

[carter]

flo,

opcode said in a previous response here that the frequency response parameters on the VC200 are adjustable. i don't see that in the manual. how do i do it and how do i know what it's set to currently?

[carter]

fraggle, thanks for your comments too. what i hear you saying is that you've been able to go +3db consistently, but it's really when you use methods to avoid the high frequency blasts - stuff that is causing me problems, so i'm not inclined to think anything is wrong with my system just yet - it's about tweaking the signal i'm sending it. anyway, i just de-essed the problem track i was struggling with earlier via protools, and will cut it in a while -- after a trip to the electronics shop down the street for more fuses!

[opcode66]

Got my fingers crossed for ya mate!

With respect to the rolloff frequecny it might be something were you will need to replace a resistor. So, when I said it is user configurable, I'm not sure that it is configurable via the interface...

Cheers,

Opcode66

[subkontrabob]

hello carter,
another thing. vu meters aren't peak to peak meters, they are average meters (more like rms).

The VC 200 has LED meters. The dubcutter manual has a block diagram that shows a "peak detector" component before the metering circuit. This would imply the VC200 shows absolute peak values.

the cutterhead should withstand 500mA for an hour or so....but if you blow a 500ma slow blow you normally have peaks much higher. could be 3-4 amps peaks easy...

what level (in dBu) is 500 mA? If we consider a 4 amp peak, that would be 20 * log 4/0,5 = 18 dB above 500 mA, am I correct?

[carter]

with de-essing i was able to cut the same recording with a few +2 peaks, fuses in tact all the way through.

when i looked at the waveform in protools, it appeared highly compressed.

[dietrich10]

are you using high pass and low pass filters as well ??

[subkontrabob]

@carter: by the way, do you know steven masseys free pro tools plugin suite?

http://smassey.com/plugin.html

it has a good metering plugin, a mid/side de/encoder and a few other things.

I use that metering plugin a lot.

cheers,

Bob

[subkontrabob]

when i looked at the waveform in protools, it appeared highly compressed.

The waveform of what? A recording of your cut, or the source material?

[gold]

A groove at peak volume is about 7 mils.

Level is measured is cm/sec. This is very basic.

[opcode66]

A groove at peak volume is about 7 mils.

Level is measured is cm/sec. This is very basic.

Yes, stylus velocity and accelleration have to do with volume and peaks in volume. I was only saying that grooves generally become no wider than 7 mils. Shouldn't have related it to volume. I think I did mention a few times that sounds have two components: frequency and amplitude. So, the more the playback stylus moves (lat/vert) for a given wave/frequency the louder the percived frequency becomes.

FYI, for those cutters who have never used a test tone record. The 1K tone is measured at 7 cm/sec.

Thank you Paul for making sure to clarify on this point!