So I got my new microgroove stylus and rebuilt cartridge from Gib, and checked to make sure my capacitors weren't leaking. No DC voltage seemed to be leaking on to the head, and the AC voltage was working great in correlation with the volume control. The AC voltage went up as I turned up the volume knob. I opted out of replacing the capacitors, as the amplifier and radio seem to be functioning fine with no distortion and what not. So I felt safe to connect the new cartridge.
When I put the machine in record mode, useing the radio as the source, I can tell the new cartridge is doing something, as it is vibrating along with the audio from the radio. I'm useing a CD-r to test it out, and it appears to etch nicely into the disk as it moves inwards. It is held steady with a little metal adaptor that came with the machine.
The disc, although it looks cool, will not playback on anything. The needle on my record player just slips off it. I attempted to play with the weight on the arm of the player, but it always did the same thing. I just got this new microgroove stylus, and I'd like to avoid ruining it by playing with different weights and what not.. but this could very well be the problem.
Has anyone had success cutting CD-r's on a Recordette, and if so, how did you modify the weight of the arm? Thanks.
-Thomas
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Self-lather
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cuttercollector
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I only play with Lacquers not other plastics like CD blank media etc.
It sounds like it is not cutting deep enough off hand. Can you examine what you cut under a strong magnifying glass or microscope and get some idea how deep the groove is in relationship to a normal record. Don' laugh but does it "feel" shalow with your finger nail as opposed to the grove on an LP?
One other deal is that CDr media is tiny and some record players do not like playing that close to the spindle. if you just sort of manualy lower the needle of the player on what you cut but don't let go and let it slip, do you hear ANY of the audio, even if it won't stay tracking? You don't need to cut audio to test. In fact most people try to adjust to get a silent test groove that is the right shape and depth, is quiet and tracks properly, THEN add the audio modulation. If you can hear or feel the stylus vibrating when in the record mode with audio, you have to be close. Congratulations - almost.
It sounds like it is not cutting deep enough off hand. Can you examine what you cut under a strong magnifying glass or microscope and get some idea how deep the groove is in relationship to a normal record. Don' laugh but does it "feel" shalow with your finger nail as opposed to the grove on an LP?
One other deal is that CDr media is tiny and some record players do not like playing that close to the spindle. if you just sort of manualy lower the needle of the player on what you cut but don't let go and let it slip, do you hear ANY of the audio, even if it won't stay tracking? You don't need to cut audio to test. In fact most people try to adjust to get a silent test groove that is the right shape and depth, is quiet and tracks properly, THEN add the audio modulation. If you can hear or feel the stylus vibrating when in the record mode with audio, you have to be close. Congratulations - almost.
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Self-lather
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Yeah, I think I'm gonna do just that. I'm fairly sure my record player can handle playing that close to the center of the record. Its a Numark, and its intended for DJs, although I'm not a DJ. I have a couple of lathed record that play close in to the center, and they play fine.
I'm devising a method where I can slowly increase the weight using pennies until I find the proper balance. I just bought a ton of cheap CD-r's, and plan on ruining a bunch of them in the process.
And you're right! I can actually hear the sound coming from the record head. Crazy! This definitely was not true before I had the head rebuilt.
Another thing, how should the chisel tip be oriented in regards to the media? Does this matter? I placed it how I thought it was least likely to destroy the tip if I accidently did something I shouldn't.
-Thomas
I'm devising a method where I can slowly increase the weight using pennies until I find the proper balance. I just bought a ton of cheap CD-r's, and plan on ruining a bunch of them in the process.
And you're right! I can actually hear the sound coming from the record head. Crazy! This definitely was not true before I had the head rebuilt.
Another thing, how should the chisel tip be oriented in regards to the media? Does this matter? I placed it how I thought it was least likely to destroy the tip if I accidently did something I shouldn't.
-Thomas
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cuttercollector
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Yes, it matters a whole bunch!
I was assuming you had that right rather than a weight problem.
BTW I don't think you are in danger of ruoning the stylus with short test cuts into cdr plastic. It is te same all the way through, ulike laquer coated aluminum where if you cut too deep you touch the aluminum base which instantly dulls the stylus.
Dosen't your stylus shank have a flat you can tighten the setscrew down against? In any case the sharp chisel point faces into the uncut media toward the back of the arm. There is typically a flat on the back of the actual styus part too. That should face forward toward you, facing the already just cut groove. (Not the one one revolution before)
Perhaps I don't understand what you are asking.
I was assuming you had that right rather than a weight problem.
BTW I don't think you are in danger of ruoning the stylus with short test cuts into cdr plastic. It is te same all the way through, ulike laquer coated aluminum where if you cut too deep you touch the aluminum base which instantly dulls the stylus.
Dosen't your stylus shank have a flat you can tighten the setscrew down against? In any case the sharp chisel point faces into the uncut media toward the back of the arm. There is typically a flat on the back of the actual styus part too. That should face forward toward you, facing the already just cut groove. (Not the one one revolution before)
Perhaps I don't understand what you are asking.
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Self-lather
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Still fighting this Recordette...
Ok, so I've got my stylus aligned correctly now. You were right CutterCollector, it does have a flat side to it where the screw tightens down onto it.
I started playing around with different weights, using quarters as a source for extra weight. I found that adding about four quarters over the head of the arm seems to allow for the Recordette to cut deep enough into a CD-r for my Numark turntable to be able to catch the groove. So far so good, that is, only recording silence.
So I turn up the volume on the radio and attempt a cut. When I played it back, nothing audible other than noise can be heard on the disc. I thought for a second that maybe I had accidently destroyed the stylus, but it is still just as sharp as ever. The sapphire tip is very resilient I must say. My second thought was that perhaps I had in fact somehow missed the presence of DC voltage leaking on to the head, and I had accidently blown the head. I put my ear up to it and couldn't hear anything, but I could still feel light vibrations coming from it. I unscrewed the head, and immediately I could hear the sound being sent to the record head. The head is definitely still functioning. The stylus doesn't seem to be vibrating all that much, but I can feel the vibrations and hear the audio coming from the record head. So I put the head back in place and gave it a second try. Still nothing but noise on playback.
Could my amp not be pumping enough juice to the head to record properly? I tested the output with a multi-meter, and I'm not sure what voltage it should be sending out, but it definitely works in correlation with the volume knob, giving me a reading of zero when it is turned all the way down, and then moving up as I turn up the volume.
Any ideas?
-Thomas
I started playing around with different weights, using quarters as a source for extra weight. I found that adding about four quarters over the head of the arm seems to allow for the Recordette to cut deep enough into a CD-r for my Numark turntable to be able to catch the groove. So far so good, that is, only recording silence.
So I turn up the volume on the radio and attempt a cut. When I played it back, nothing audible other than noise can be heard on the disc. I thought for a second that maybe I had accidently destroyed the stylus, but it is still just as sharp as ever. The sapphire tip is very resilient I must say. My second thought was that perhaps I had in fact somehow missed the presence of DC voltage leaking on to the head, and I had accidently blown the head. I put my ear up to it and couldn't hear anything, but I could still feel light vibrations coming from it. I unscrewed the head, and immediately I could hear the sound being sent to the record head. The head is definitely still functioning. The stylus doesn't seem to be vibrating all that much, but I can feel the vibrations and hear the audio coming from the record head. So I put the head back in place and gave it a second try. Still nothing but noise on playback.
Could my amp not be pumping enough juice to the head to record properly? I tested the output with a multi-meter, and I'm not sure what voltage it should be sending out, but it definitely works in correlation with the volume knob, giving me a reading of zero when it is turned all the way down, and then moving up as I turn up the volume.
Any ideas?
-Thomas
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cuttercollector
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So, now I am very confused by your last comments.
I don't know if the noise on the cutting is drowning out the audio or what.
You say you can record at a normal level and hear absolutely nothing on playback????
First, with the volume turned down, does a silent groove with no audio have lots of noise compared to a silent portion of a normal Lp played at the same volume?
A related question is, can you hear any mechanical scraping noise as it is cutting? It should be pretty silent if you are cutting a blank groove with no audio. Your groove should ideally have no noise when you play it back. I doubt you will get there easily from what I have heard about plastics vs lacquers from others on here. But try to get it as quiet as you can so you don't drown out whatever audio with surface noise.
Next question. You said something about loosning the head to hear the mechanical sound of the cutter and stylus vibrating with the audio signal.
I don't understand why you cant hear/feel it in the stylus when it is installed in the arm. Something is really strainge about that.
One off the wall possibility is that one side of the cartridge cutter has a grounding strap to the mounting screw. I have seen this. IF you happen to connect the hot side of the pair of wires to this grounded side (the other one IS the ground side lead) you might be effectively shorting out the amp's output to the cutter! This would then go away when you took the cutter out of the arm (which is probably grounded). Does that make any sense? See if you can tell which of the 2 wires is ground and hook that to the ground side of the cutter if you can figure out which side that is. Or just
switch them and see if it works the same installed in the arm. It should. You should see a blinking neon light for peak recording level. Set the volume so it just flashes on the loudest peaks. At this point you should clearly hear some sound from the cutter itself and feel the stylus vibrate.
I would guess the voltage across it would be around 40-60V AC at this point more or less. If it is doing that and cutting a relatively low noise groove, I can't see how you could possibly NOT get audio in the groove.
I mean, it's hard to get perfect but you should hear SOMETHING at this point.
I don't know if the noise on the cutting is drowning out the audio or what.
You say you can record at a normal level and hear absolutely nothing on playback????
First, with the volume turned down, does a silent groove with no audio have lots of noise compared to a silent portion of a normal Lp played at the same volume?
A related question is, can you hear any mechanical scraping noise as it is cutting? It should be pretty silent if you are cutting a blank groove with no audio. Your groove should ideally have no noise when you play it back. I doubt you will get there easily from what I have heard about plastics vs lacquers from others on here. But try to get it as quiet as you can so you don't drown out whatever audio with surface noise.
Next question. You said something about loosning the head to hear the mechanical sound of the cutter and stylus vibrating with the audio signal.
I don't understand why you cant hear/feel it in the stylus when it is installed in the arm. Something is really strainge about that.
One off the wall possibility is that one side of the cartridge cutter has a grounding strap to the mounting screw. I have seen this. IF you happen to connect the hot side of the pair of wires to this grounded side (the other one IS the ground side lead) you might be effectively shorting out the amp's output to the cutter! This would then go away when you took the cutter out of the arm (which is probably grounded). Does that make any sense? See if you can tell which of the 2 wires is ground and hook that to the ground side of the cutter if you can figure out which side that is. Or just
switch them and see if it works the same installed in the arm. It should. You should see a blinking neon light for peak recording level. Set the volume so it just flashes on the loudest peaks. At this point you should clearly hear some sound from the cutter itself and feel the stylus vibrate.
I would guess the voltage across it would be around 40-60V AC at this point more or less. If it is doing that and cutting a relatively low noise groove, I can't see how you could possibly NOT get audio in the groove.
I mean, it's hard to get perfect but you should hear SOMETHING at this point.
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cuttercollector
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One other obvious suggestion.
Does it work for playback?
If you put a playback stylus in and try it as a phonograph (minus the $1.00 change in quarters) you should get reasonable playback volume if the head is OK. DON'T use the cutting stylus and don't use a good record. The thing tracks at about 20 Lbs.! (kidding - but not much).
Actually, just leave everything as is and use the time tested principal of scraping you finger gently across the stylus (making sure you don't break your precious sapphire). With it in the phono playback position, you should hear volume in the same ballpark as the radio - perhaps a little lower.
It does not make any difference whether the arm is up or down as far as the signal is concerned. There is no switch other than the main mode switch. Up only engages the leadscrew to drive it across the disc while cutting.
Does it work for playback?
If you put a playback stylus in and try it as a phonograph (minus the $1.00 change in quarters) you should get reasonable playback volume if the head is OK. DON'T use the cutting stylus and don't use a good record. The thing tracks at about 20 Lbs.! (kidding - but not much).
Actually, just leave everything as is and use the time tested principal of scraping you finger gently across the stylus (making sure you don't break your precious sapphire). With it in the phono playback position, you should hear volume in the same ballpark as the radio - perhaps a little lower.
It does not make any difference whether the arm is up or down as far as the signal is concerned. There is no switch other than the main mode switch. Up only engages the leadscrew to drive it across the disc while cutting.
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cuttercollector
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OK, Last thought of the night and this one is perhaps a little discouraging.
It MIGHT be possible that because ot the extra weight you had to add to cut the plastic, it is not allowing the stylus to vibrate enough at normal record levels to etch audio. In other words, the material is too tough for the available power of this unit. The weight is downward and the stylus vibrates from side to side, but there could be an issue there. After trying all the things I suggested previously, try a test cut and see if you start to hear more audio through the head as you begin to lift weight off the arm while cutting. Then see if there is a point that you begin to hear something before the depth gets to where your playback cartridge won't track it.
It MIGHT be possible that because ot the extra weight you had to add to cut the plastic, it is not allowing the stylus to vibrate enough at normal record levels to etch audio. In other words, the material is too tough for the available power of this unit. The weight is downward and the stylus vibrates from side to side, but there could be an issue there. After trying all the things I suggested previously, try a test cut and see if you start to hear more audio through the head as you begin to lift weight off the arm while cutting. Then see if there is a point that you begin to hear something before the depth gets to where your playback cartridge won't track it.
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Self-lather
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I've almost conquered the beast.
So I did a few more tests last night with the Recordette. At first, I was getting the same results.. it seems to cut fine, but no audio.
I decided to open it up and see if I could see anything obvious that was causing the problem (like a blown tube or something). All the tubes seemed to be functioning fine. I decided to temporarily disconnect the speaker wire, so I could hear the volume coming from the recording head a little better, and so I don't go deaf while trying to see if the recording head is working.
The record head was barely making any noise at all. This scared me a bit because I thought this time I really had blown out the recording head. I unscrewed it from the arm, and turn on the machine. It immediately started working.. it was very loud and very audible. The stylus was vibrating madly.
I got excited that for some reason it had started working, but to my dismay, the second I put it back into the arm, it stop! Something was shorting out every-time the exterior shell of the head touched the metal of the arm.
I examined the head a little more, and even though I had noticed this before, I realized that one of the connectors had a small piece of metal on it that touched the shell of the cartridge. Just as an experiment, I bent this up so it wasn't touching the shell anymore. The head now worked when screwed into the arm!! It does worry me a bit, because this connection was obviously there for a reason.
I did a few test cuts, and they had audio. Very noisy, but definitely audible. I'm not sure if the excess noise is just the nature of the beast, the fact that I'm cutting in to a CDr, a weight issue, or if I'm actually having some sort of grounding issue from removing the connection to the head. Either way, I'm almost there!
-Thomas
I decided to open it up and see if I could see anything obvious that was causing the problem (like a blown tube or something). All the tubes seemed to be functioning fine. I decided to temporarily disconnect the speaker wire, so I could hear the volume coming from the recording head a little better, and so I don't go deaf while trying to see if the recording head is working.
The record head was barely making any noise at all. This scared me a bit because I thought this time I really had blown out the recording head. I unscrewed it from the arm, and turn on the machine. It immediately started working.. it was very loud and very audible. The stylus was vibrating madly.
I got excited that for some reason it had started working, but to my dismay, the second I put it back into the arm, it stop! Something was shorting out every-time the exterior shell of the head touched the metal of the arm.
I examined the head a little more, and even though I had noticed this before, I realized that one of the connectors had a small piece of metal on it that touched the shell of the cartridge. Just as an experiment, I bent this up so it wasn't touching the shell anymore. The head now worked when screwed into the arm!! It does worry me a bit, because this connection was obviously there for a reason.
I did a few test cuts, and they had audio. Very noisy, but definitely audible. I'm not sure if the excess noise is just the nature of the beast, the fact that I'm cutting in to a CDr, a weight issue, or if I'm actually having some sort of grounding issue from removing the connection to the head. Either way, I'm almost there!
-Thomas
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buckettovsissors
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Wilcox Gay
Hi,
I have a WilCoxG Recordet Sr. Its red.
Anyway, I got my head repiared by gib and it works great.
to make a long story short, I have had no problem to cut to cdrs ,in fact its the only meduim that works with allmost no surface noise.
Im also using a saphire. I havent had to add weight or anything like that.
does yours cut at 33 or 45 ,mine doesnt so I do the speed up the recording trick ,but of course that really reduces the quailty ,its kind of telephone style but nontheless it works. ,I have a record player that plays 78 and you can really notice a big diffrence. Also try diffrent volume levels to reduce your surface noise as well as making sure your cdrs are not full of dust or whatever when your cutting them. Also double check your playback needle that it doesnt have a ton of dust or dirt or whatever that could cause unwanted "noise" .
I have a WilCoxG Recordet Sr. Its red.
Anyway, I got my head repiared by gib and it works great.
to make a long story short, I have had no problem to cut to cdrs ,in fact its the only meduim that works with allmost no surface noise.
Im also using a saphire. I havent had to add weight or anything like that.
does yours cut at 33 or 45 ,mine doesnt so I do the speed up the recording trick ,but of course that really reduces the quailty ,its kind of telephone style but nontheless it works. ,I have a record player that plays 78 and you can really notice a big diffrence. Also try diffrent volume levels to reduce your surface noise as well as making sure your cdrs are not full of dust or whatever when your cutting them. Also double check your playback needle that it doesnt have a ton of dust or dirt or whatever that could cause unwanted "noise" .
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Self-lather
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Hey Buckettovsissors,
Good to meet a fellow CD-r lather. My Recordette is green, and records at 33, 45, and 78 speeds. I'm still trying to master the best way to cut to CDrs. I have LOTS of surface noise, so I'm still trying to get to the bottom of what is causing this. Thanks to Cuttercollector, I managed to get to the bottom of a grounding issue I was having. Its definetly reasurring that you say you have almost no surface noise.. I'm far from being able to say that, but I'm on my way. My playback needle is clean, and I've been testing with different volumes.
I definetly have to add weight to the head, or it won't cut deep enough for playback. Yours may have a heavier record arm on it than mine.
The discourageing thing is that I can hear the surface noise very loudly even when I'm cutting nothing but silence.
I will continue to test..! Any ideas? I'd really like to hear an example of the stuff you have recorded for comparison.
-Thomas
Good to meet a fellow CD-r lather. My Recordette is green, and records at 33, 45, and 78 speeds. I'm still trying to master the best way to cut to CDrs. I have LOTS of surface noise, so I'm still trying to get to the bottom of what is causing this. Thanks to Cuttercollector, I managed to get to the bottom of a grounding issue I was having. Its definetly reasurring that you say you have almost no surface noise.. I'm far from being able to say that, but I'm on my way. My playback needle is clean, and I've been testing with different volumes.
I definetly have to add weight to the head, or it won't cut deep enough for playback. Yours may have a heavier record arm on it than mine.
The discourageing thing is that I can hear the surface noise very loudly even when I'm cutting nothing but silence.
I will continue to test..! Any ideas? I'd really like to hear an example of the stuff you have recorded for comparison.
-Thomas
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buckettovsissors
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http://angelfire.com/scary/wbs/lathe.html
there you will find 3 mp3s of 3 releases I did as cd-lathes.
Zyratx is kind of techno the others are noise so for some it would be difficult to tell if its surface noise or how its suppost to be. Well its how its suppost to be throough a phone basicly. But no screechs that I got with plastic plates, notebook covers, I even got a little surface noise using part of a vinylrecorder blank.
there you will find 3 mp3s of 3 releases I did as cd-lathes.
Zyratx is kind of techno the others are noise so for some it would be difficult to tell if its surface noise or how its suppost to be. Well its how its suppost to be throough a phone basicly. But no screechs that I got with plastic plates, notebook covers, I even got a little surface noise using part of a vinylrecorder blank.
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Self-lather
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Thanks for the samples Buckettovsissors. It is hard to tell because of the texturized style of your music, but I think I can tell that you definitely have less surface noise than I am getting. I'm going to play around with some different brands of CD-rs and see if this helps. Right now I just bought the cheapest spindle of 100 I could find. They are "Office Depot" brand... I'm going to take a couple of Verbatim brand CDs home from work and see if the quality is any different.
-Thomas
-Thomas
From what I have learned reading all the posts about the recordette here, I would say that CD's are simply too hard material.
Furthermore I think cutting in cd's wears out the cutting needle very quickly.
I would like to do it myself - best suggestion I have heard so far is to get a cuttingneedle with a heating coil attached to it, thus heating the needle while cutting. I have no idea where to get such on for the recordette thoug...
What would be useful to all os us here, that have a recordette, would be a list and description of materials that people have good experience with.
Notebook covers are not good, but some kind of soft plastic could be...
Furthermore I think cutting in cd's wears out the cutting needle very quickly.
I would like to do it myself - best suggestion I have heard so far is to get a cuttingneedle with a heating coil attached to it, thus heating the needle while cutting. I have no idea where to get such on for the recordette thoug...
What would be useful to all os us here, that have a recordette, would be a list and description of materials that people have good experience with.
Notebook covers are not good, but some kind of soft plastic could be...
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Self-lather
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Tape, you may be right about CDR's being too hard. However, people on this forum have said they have gotten good results with little to no surface noise. I find this surprising judging from the results I've been getting!
As far as wearing out your stylus, I think that if you use a sapphire tip stylus... as CutterCollector pointed out, I think we should be fine cutting to CDR's. I haven't noticed any wear on my stylus so far!
I did do a test to ink-jet printable transparency paper. Not a good source! What have you tried so far?
-Thomas
As far as wearing out your stylus, I think that if you use a sapphire tip stylus... as CutterCollector pointed out, I think we should be fine cutting to CDR's. I haven't noticed any wear on my stylus so far!
I did do a test to ink-jet printable transparency paper. Not a good source! What have you tried so far?
-Thomas
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Self-lather
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Self-lather
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I think I'm going to give this a try! I really want to try some of the professional blanks from Transco or Apollo as well. They are just so expensive, and I don't want to ruin them for the sake of experimenting. I suppose I could buy one or two twelve inches and do a bunch of short test cuts until I get it right.
-Thomas
-Thomas