Japanese Lathe (Hara Recording Devices)

[sleepkid]

Was: New Lathe Troll and Japanese Lathe

Hello everyone. Glad to be here (I have lurked off and on for a while). Thanks in advance for all your patience and help. I'm new to the lathe game, in that I just bought my first lathe today. It was in a recycle shop near my house, and after checking it out carefully I went back again and bought it.

It's Japanese. (I'm in Japan. I'm not Japanese, but I speak/read Japanese having lived here for roughly 10 years.) Label on the front says "Cell Original Sound" - and I'm going to guess that is not the name of the manufacturer since it says "Side B 33 1/3 RPM" - but it has no other identifying marks on it anywhere. Google searching it took me to a photo that someone else had snapped of this unit 2 years earlier when it sat in the same shop, but was twice as much. (I paid $400 for it)



It is probably manufactured by the same person/company as the one in this video (which has been discussed on this forum before), but a different model:

I checked mine as carefully as I could before purchasing. Runs nice and smooth, and I even got the recycle shop to let me test cut onto a CD. It all looks to be 90% functioning.

It's mono. Has two inputs an "input" and a "mic in" - both are 1/4" jack inputs. IT has RCA jacks as well, but it doesn't say if these are in or out - haven't tested them yet. Also has a mono headphone jack. The 1/4" Input has a weak signal, but I imagine since it's mono, if you use the "mic in" it would be just fine. The only other problem is that the Amperage meter (I believe that's what it is) doesn't seem to work. Though to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what it's function would be on this unit. The dial next to it has a W (Watts?) and an Ohms mark on it.

The rest of it works just fine. Love the arm on this thing.

Slightly different angle:


It's built like a tank. In fact, I have no idea how I will get into it if I decide to repair the weak 1/4" input. Has no screws anywhere. Just rivets on the outside of the trunk/case that it sits in. I'll probably just stick with the Mic input for the signal in since that works very well and compensate for the line difference - but at some point in the future, if I get more serious about this, I may want to do some small modifications to it.

For making practice cuts, I have an endless source of cheap laser discs here in Japan. While they never caught on in the states, they became big here, and they're dirt cheap now, and roughly the same size as a 12" record. If I bore out their centers a little, they will take a 45 adapter. In the meantime, as long as I center them with a ruler, the spindle clamp should hold them steady. Will see how it goes once I get everything set up.

Would love advice on setting up a good signal path for this - i.e. EQs? Compression? Pre-amp? What's the way to go?

Thank you again for your consideration. Will try and post more pictures later for greater detail/documentation purposes.

[sleepkid]

Adding a picture of the cutting head assembly. Could anyone give me an idea if this is a Grampian short shank type stylus? Or do I need a better photo? Looks to be in fair shape, but I should probably line up a replacement for the future.



I'm also theorizing that the amp meter and control (above the VU meter) were maybe for heating the stylus? But it was never connected? You can see the extra wires between the cutting head and the vacuum head.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[emidisc]

I think you may well of obtained a super bargain there I and others have been trying to obtain more info on this great looking machine!
The cutter head looks very much like one of BRS type the size is difficult to estimate from the photos,
I own a couple of BRS Heads and they are pretty reliable and easy to work with,
If you carefully unscrew the thumbscrew on the front of the head it should release the stylus in order to obtain the exact size of replacement you will require......just take a lot of care with the amount of current (signal input) you put into the unit otherwise you could blow the head etc? But I think you got a good piece of kit for a good price well done!

Emidisc

[sleepkid]

Hello Emidisc,

Thanks for the reply. It is an interesting lathe - mostly interesting because it has no identifying marks anywhere. I really think it's an extremely well made handbuilt lathe, or a prototype or something. The inputs aren't even factory marked - someone took a label gun and made labels for the inputs and the controls.

It has sealed screws for removing the turntable platter, but once I get that off, I'd at least have a peep at the motor and inside. . . maybe. Like I said, it seems to have been built to never be opened.

I had removed the stylus the other night when trying to determine what material the stylus is using. It's translucent and hard - that's all I know. Are the sapphires and rubies used for cutting heads translucent? I successfully cut a song into a CD (poor results), and also into/over the runout grooves on a junky old record (better results but still not great, with the caveat that the runout groove makes it skip a bit). Very simple workflow - took an uncompressed .WAV file into Audacity - switched it from Stereo to Mono - applied the RIAA curve inversion - panned it left and then ran it from the headphone out of the computer into the MIC input (only working input) of the lathe. Seemed to work well. I love Audacity. You can't beat free, can you?

Thanks for the warning about frying the head. The VU meter works well, so I'm pretty sure I can monitor that.

Don't have a vacuum hooked up to it yet, so I was blowing and brushing away the fluff while cutting which wasn't ideal. Will salvage a vacuum motor from a recycle shop and adapt it. (it seems like a fairly weak pull would be best for the vacuum, to keep sucking up the fluff in a continuous thread. Or should a strong vacuum be used?)

Here is the stylus:



Just under 2cm from top of the shank to stylus tip. Flattened side helps align the stylus to face front. What is it? I find sites that sell Ruby/Sapphire/Diamond cutting styluses for Grampian/Westrex/Neumann/etc. But dimensions and photos of the actual stylus for comparison aren't posted, so I'm kind of in the dark on this one. What is it?

I think once I get the right combination of stylus and blank material to work with, I'll be cutting satisfactory grooves.

That's my hope anyway.

[sleepkid]

Oh, and I was also able to cut a 45 RPM. The turntable only rotates at 33 1/3, but by slowing down the master 25.94% I was able to cut a track which played back correctly at 45RPM. (At least, close to correctly. 33.33/45=74.06 - remainder of 25.94. Is this the correct formula for this process? It was pretty close.)

Also, just tried to remove the platter screws to see if I could peak underneath. The screws are sealed. Won't budge at all. Excellent sealant. Looks like loctite red, or whatever the Japanese version is. Red colour. They really have designed this for not getting into.

[sleepkid]

Well, some progress made.

Thank you to the Shank who has identified my stylus as a 462 type w/ a white sapphire tip.

Also, I finally solved the mystery of how to get into this thing. It turns out that the wood had shrunk around the edges of the case, but after a little wiggling, the whole thing lifts right out. No screws hold it down or anything - no need, weighs as much as you might expect and more. Since the platter can't be removed, is this thing safe to work on with it tilted on it's side? Would that be good for the drive shaft? Didn't chance it. Rested it somewhat precariously on two stools and took some quick pictures of the underneath and then put it back in it's box before I damaged it.

Snapping quick photos of the underneath reveals... absolutely nothing except that it is very well made with industrial grade components. No manufacturers information anywhere. Some component manufacturers information revealed.


Motor and belt assembly.


Mmmm. Industrial motor. Hey look! A space for a date! No such luck. Nothing there.


The circuit board. The Power Amplifier IC is made by Sanyo. The caps, transistors, and such look to be mid to late 70's. But that's just a guess. I'll try and get a better look at it after I make a more stable way to look at the underneath, or finally decide to prop it on it's side.

[sleepkid]

Mystery Identity of the Lathe is solved. Manufactured by Hara Recording Machines (Devices) 原録音機 - sometime during the 70's. The company itself has existed since before the war. There is an NHK Broadcasting History Museum which has one of their war-era transcription machines. Will try and find out more about the company.

The person I spoke with says he's seen four different variations of this era cutter.

[Jesus H Chrysler]

I don't have any info to impart but it's very cool. thanks for sharing with us and good luck with it.

[Steve E.]

Fantastic! Gradually, we are learning more about these. Still, so mysterious. Did one company make all of them?

See also:

Japanese Portable Lathes of the 1970s

[Steve E.]

Oh, and I was also able to cut a 45 RPM. The turntable only rotates at 33 1/3, but by slowing down the master 25.94% I was able to cut a track which played back correctly at 45RPM. (At least, close to correctly. 33.33/45=74.06 - remainder of 25.94. Is this the correct formula for this process? It was pretty close.)

Be aware that using this technique will give you a skewed RIAA EQ curve. I leave it to others to tell you how to correct for such a thing. Perhaps such info exists on the board somewhere. I think that right now, this is the least of your worries.

[Steve E.]

I'm also theorizing that the amp meter and control (above the VU meter) were maybe for heating the stylus? But it was never connected? You can see the extra wires between the cutting head and the vacuum head.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I suspect you are correct. Probably connected to the wires that come off the stylus.

[opcode66]

Here is the stylus:



Just under 2cm from top of the shank to stylus tip. Flattened side helps align the stylus to face front. What is it? I find sites that sell Ruby/Sapphire/Diamond cutting styluses for Grampian/Westrex/Neumann/etc. But dimensions and photos of the actual stylus for comparison aren't posted, so I'm kind of in the dark on this one. What is it?

I think once I get the right combination of stylus and blank material to work with, I'll be cutting satisfactory grooves.

That's my hope anyway.

I can supply you with diamonds of that exact size/shape. It is called a Long Shank Presto sylus. I can also supply you with 12" or 7" polycarbonate discs.

[godz]

my machine is similar but i think different stylus

[Steve E.]

More pix of Godz' machine are in that other thread:

Japanese Portable Lathes of the 1970s

[emidisc]

Great pics inside of the cutter head !
I presume the light brown translucent coloured material is for damping purposes? Silicon perhaps?
Interesting design similar to the BSR design, would like to see a full view of the head looking on the underside? If that is possible,
I can not actually see the coil clearly although it must be there?
Thanks for posting I will try to post some of my BSR Head for comparison.

Emidisc

[sleepkid]

Sorry I've been away for a while. Been busy with other work, and haven't had a chance to play with the lathe much - though I have found that laserdiscs are fantastic for cutting - and very plentiful and cheap here in Japan.

Godz: Yours is definitely a Hara Recording Devices machine. I've spoken with the owner of Yard Studio (cutting the dub plate on Youtube) and he's seen 3 or 4 variations of the machine. My guess is that they were made to order for radio stations, or what have you which is why no two are alike. A stereo cutter for one of these machines was made - but here's the thing, I don't know who was making the cutting heads. As for the stylus, mine might be a replacement stylus. Yours might be an original, or vice versa.

I've done some research on Hara, and . . . they company still exists! But in what form I still don't know. But there is an address and phone number. I've been meaning to call and see if there is anyone still at the company who knows something about these machines. But I can tell you this: The company is in Saitama, and three or four of the parts that I have identified inside the machine are also from Saitama here in Japan. It doesn't seem that Hara produced any of the parts themselves - and instead was just ordering off the shelf parts to assemble their lathes. This is why I think that the cutting heads may have been purchased from some other Japanese company. Indeed, the cutting head on mine is a match for the Disc Recorder in your thread, which - given it's similar case, may also be a Hara manufactured machine.

If I get a hold of someone at Hara Recording Devices, I will let you know.

By the way, I'm not sure if you noticed - but to get inside your machine, you just lift the whole thing up out of the case. You have to grab it by the arm, and be careful - it's heavy, and it can slip. Also, once you get it out, you'll need something to set it down on.

Emidisc: Yes, please do post pictures of your BSR head!

[lucien]

More pictures of a model that looks similar to the one at Yard studio here :
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/vrc-tezuka/e/09cbc5ab3ea2bb206d4edb3b6b7d0e2a

[lucien]

[studiorp]

Hello, little updates on Japanese lathes.

See here : http://page22.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/l336417689

and : http://page8.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/h215636487

The second lathe is an Hara M-180 with a double stereo 8 incorporated, probably used for copy directly on disc. Is there someone here that use this copy system ?

[studiorp]

And here the traduced page : http://yahoo.aleado.com/lot?auctionID=h215636487

Gone for 575$ in december 2015.