calibrate /configure T560

[drdub]

Cutting is the highest art form in producing audio, but today everyone call themself a master. Cause you only need the right tools, they think...

+1

were cutting for 12+ years now and i still do not know why and how exactely it works...
the key really is practice.

as your mixer goes, get something like this thing :

[dimi751]

What are you try to achieve here ?

Is it to remove noise or just get better equipment ?

The reason why I ask is that you can try the hum remover I have this on my dj gear

Just plug the hum remover before the amplifier unit

So with your vr riaa unit I'm assume it go to the amplifier input ..?

So I would try this go riaa unit output to hum remover input then hum remover output to amplifier.

This might be different setup for you because I don't really understand workflows of the vr

Anyway hope this help you it really make a huge difference on my technics 1200 with stanton mixer super quiet now no more buzzy sounds or hum.

I buy hum remover from eBay for 40 dollars

And I have to agree with JP, JP give good advise you don't want to spend money for nothing
And from what I read on the forum vr electronik is customised for the cutterhead so personally I would not alter the configuration for the vr setup.

Good luck hope you sort out this things

[SUNBEARS]

Thought I'd chime in here.

I don't use the mixer or pass audio through Souri's main unit any longer.

I come out of my DAW (Wavelab) > Apollo > Amp > Cutterhead. I do all RiAA encoding in the box, as well as low end summing and all using Ozone. I attenuate using the Apollo which has an analog attenuator, that is digitally controlled. You can even save by Session if you wish within their Console App. In WAVELAB, I set up a "Source" listening point using the virtual outputs on my Apollo, this looks back in (virtually) to my daw, those go to my Presonus Monitor Station (out 3 and 4 of my Apollo). Then the "Main Outs" run to my Amp. The monitor station switches between my "Source" and "Playback."

It's a pretty chill set up - and I know exactly what's happening. Maybe I'm a control freak.. haha.

This was one of the first changes I made to the set up. I know the limitations of the cutter head and I'm not sending anything crazy (sonically crazy) to it. Everything is wrangled in in my DAW.

Also! I have my suspicions that Souri's RIAA encoder is actually not even in the main unit, it's somewhere on the Lathe itself (perhaps inside of the box that the cutterhead plugs into).

Quite honestly, the flexibility of features with this setup is insane. I have the dynamic cutterhead, and after spending some time with EQ, it sounds damn near perfect of the Source.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
J

----

PS. I have always been very very happy with Souri's set up. I've cut over 1k records and couldn't be happier. The VR and Souri have been everything I wanted and expected them to be. Now I just want that Variable Pitch

Thanks for reading

[sat159p1]

JP, You're not right. This is not compressor, this is not EQ. These are tools that can't empty your wallet or destroy something when using them. VR is precise and unusual equipment. If I buy solvent printer or a laser cutter I always get support, from precise calibration to daily use and troubleshooting. FAQ section does not help with this, sorry.

[sat159p1]

Also! I have my suspicions that Souri's RIAA encoder is actually not even in the main unit, it's somewhere on the Lathe itself (perhaps inside of the box that the cutterhead plugs into).

I have similar thoughts. The low end blocker is not in the main unit. The RIAA curve is so strange.
By the way, what do you mean by low end summing? Can you show us how your RIAA curve looks like?

Thanks,

[opcode66]

I'll interject. Though I don't have a VR. The RIAA EQ Curve is a standard. What is going on in The VR setup is not only the standard RIAA, but also an EQ Curve created to account for the physical nature of the head. It EQ'ing to make the dynamic cutterhead sound better. There would be less EQ correction going on for the feedback version. Either way, you typically have some low and high end roll off for either dynamic or feedback.

The point I'm trying to make is simply that RIAA is a standard. The VR implements this as well as its own EQ Curve to compensate for the dynamic head.

[dimi751]

Hi sunbears

This is great that you don't even need the vr riaa unit to cut music, I read on a thread here that you need the vr hardware because of the cutterhead, looks like you proove this point wrong well done.

How does it sound when you cuter the music was there a difference in sound from the original setup ?

Maybe the original poster can get some tips from you.

[tragwag]

I bypassed the mixer as well, just using the main unit RIAA and EQs for precision.
I do some precise EQ in my DAW as well.

The mixer added this weird white noise to the system, so I took it out.
not sure if it was the power connections or what, those stripped and re-soldered power cables always weirded me out.
same with the car inverter power for the main unit, I'm sure it's technically fine but just not re-assuring at all.

also I'm sure its been noted in this thread already, and is many times on the forum, but go search for an IRIAA plugin, there's a few out there.

[SUNBEARS]

I just felt like there were just so many gain stages with the other set up. I was always getting distortion even at low volumes, no matter how hard I tried (i'm being nit picky when I call it distortion, it was very minimal).

I have do have going low end and hi end roll offs in my DAW. I'm not sending full range to my cutter head, no way.

I made these adjustments because, I just couldn't get the cuts to sound as close to the source as I wanted.. it was a far cry. I'm not just talking about high and low end, but also about the mids. I was going to suggest a "notch" filter to Souri, so you can sweep the midrange frequency and maybe get things closer, more technical, but that's not really what he's trying to do.

He's trying to build a machine that anyone can use, not just the technically inclined. It took me some time to understand that. That's really where his heart is, for enthusiasts to cut their own records, and make it turn key. My and our levels of engineering and understanding far exceed who he's really going after. That's why it's so simple. - And ya gotta hand it to him, he did it.

Also, The reason I say that I have my suspicions that the RIAA is not in the main unit is because, When I do my RIAA encoding in my DAW, i have to make some CRAZY EQ moves to get me back to it sounding right. Like, almost the inverse of an RIAA.. I'm going to be doing some low volume tests cuts once things slow down, I'll let you know what happens.

Cheers,
J

[Stevie342000]

Also! I have my suspicions that Souri's RIAA encoder is actually not even in the main unit, it's somewhere on the Lathe itself (perhaps inside of the box that the cutterhead plugs into).

I have similar thoughts. The low end blocker is not in the main unit. The RIAA curve is so strange.
By the way, what do you mean by low end summing? Can you show us how your RIAA curve looks like?

Thanks,

Low end summing is used in stereo disc cutting, I will try to keep it simple. In mono heads low frequencies take up a lot of space in lateral movement (as this is the only kind of movement in a mono system). So summing is not an issue in mono cutting systems as there is only one signal channel but when it comes to stereo cutting you have lateral and vertical movements(channels (offset at an angle of 45/45 degrees)).

The idea for summing is that frequencies below X (i.e. 350 or 500Hz) frequency are summed to mono this means that you do not get excessive vertical motion at low frequencies. For example if there was a lot of movement in vertical channel and little in the lateral channel you could end up with the cutting stylus not actually cutting a groove and you end up with stylus lift off. There are other issues to take into account at low frequencies with phase.

If low frequencies were not summed you would end up using a lot more disc space and so low frequencies are summed, it's a compromise and it is used to offset the above. Additionally it has to do with the tracking ability of the replay stylus again it's a compromise.

[dimi751]

Hi Steve,

That's a excellent description I'm still learning so your explanation was understand correct me if I'm wrong sunbears mentioned low end summing using ozone plugin I'm assuming
This relating to low end summing below 500 hertz at the bottom end ?

Dimi

[opcode66]

Low frequency summing is performed to prevent the playback stylus from skipping on very loud bass. Professional cutting systems have depth control. So, there would be no possibility of the cutting stylus lifting off the blank using a professional depth controlled lathe. It is the playback that is the issue. You can cut all sorts of grooves you can't play back. This is one example. When loud out of phase bass is played, the groove pinches laterally and vertically at the same time. If the pinching is severe enough with loud enough music, it resembles more of a ramp than a hill in a groove. The playback stylus happily jumps the ramp and off into infinity.

Summing does save a bit of lateral space.

What frequency you sum at is really program dependent. 350 is as high as I would go. Some things can go as low as 150. Test cut and playback allow you to find the sweet spot. Too much summing kills certain types of bass heavy music. When you play out of phase bass you can really feel air moving from the speakers. When you mono sum that same passage and play it, it sounds and feels much less bass heavy. So, for drum and bass tracks, the minimum of summing is best.

[dimi751]

Hi usert560

Any updates did you successful to fix the problem


Dimi

[tragwag]

The playback stylus happily jumps the ramp and off into infinity.

what a great picture I have in my head right now, of a playback needle just flinging itself off a ramp into oblivion, haha.

[usert560]

Hello dimi751 I'm waiting for Souri send me the reworked needle. I'm waiting for the 6th ... standing to do testing

[Ben]

How is the Riaa encoding/decoding working in plug-ins....how do you use them?

I would be interested in knowing a little bit about your plug-ins chains J (SUNBEARS)....I'd love to try like this myself.

Thanks brother!!
Ben

[pellegrino707]

Hi Guys,

I have bought a second hand Vinyl Recorder one year ago, so simply i can't write to Souri.

I'm with JP, you can't think Souri will provide full assistence, for free, forever, no manufacturer outside will do this. You have to know what a cutting system is, how it works, how a cutterhead works, in this way you will find and solve most of the issues. Before buying the machine i have read the full Larry Boden book (the appendix are simply the most important part of what you need to know to cut a proper record), i worked as mastering engineer for years and been a vinyl collector.

In the first 3 months i cut roughly 200 records, most of them throw away, just in order to understand and discover all the problems of my calibration and fix them. In this way i got a deep knowledge of how my system works, and when a problem happen (i think this will happen sometimes, forever), i already know some of the problems and how to fix them, and when is a new one, i try different settings until i fix it.

Now i cut good records, low noise and high level, and i can start thinking on the cheap components of the basic system, but until you get a good cut, makes no sense to think on the mixer noise. You are right, it is one of the noisier in the world, -56rms of noise, simply a shame, but your cuts will be much noisier than this!
I just replaced it with a different mixer, -90db of noise. And also the RCA are not a problem, thrust me... The real problem is the turntable, the 1200 is not enough, i had to buy an SP10 mark II in order to follow costumers expectations.

Now i cut records everyday, it is my primary business beside mastering, so the blanks that i throw away worth the result.

In my opinion Souri is a great engineer, he invented the machine of our dreams, just he is not a knowledged audio engineer, don't trusth him about the audio signal, i also have the impression that his RIAA and EQ are crappy.
But for that price you get a system that let you make money and fun if you have dedition on it.

When i attend lacquer cuts made on Neumann VMS everything seems much simplier than on the VR, they are close to be fully automated, while our system is completely manusl, so it's normal that you need time to practice on it.


My last suggestion, if you don't like the Souri's serivice you can try someone else, for example MyShank offers great quality styluses and blanks at competitive prices, and he is very friendly and fast!

[marcy108]

hi all.this thread is very interesting for me.
1 year ago,i bought T560 by souri.

this is my opinion.
souri's mixer is not good.i removed it too.
but RCA is not so much problem.
souri's RIAA is not bad.but not enough.hope more clear sound.

sometime i got bad sound with souri's RIAA.it is unwanted distortion and noise.and i could not enough treble.
so i try to make original RIAA signal.
then PC(DAW) --- AMP --- CUTTERHEAD
i'm doing the 3 on my PC(DAW).

1.apply original RIAA curve to master
2.apply high frequency limiter
3.volume down to around -10db(then cutting volume become 0db～+2db on souri's meter.)

the result is sometime success,but sometime failed.
sometime i got very good sound.it's very near source.
but other case i got distortion sound.and got strange treble against my will.it's rasping.

can anybody help me?


>SUNBEARS and pellegrino707
hello.i guess that you two could made original RIAA curve.
can you show me?
and it always success to any kind of music with same curve?

[Steve E.]

as your mixer goes, get something like this thing :

LRKF-7310079.jpg

What IS that thing? Besides very pretty....

[tragwag]

generally, I've found the VR setup to start distorting on high frequency info anywhere near 0dB to+3dB on the LED meter during the cut, depending on the source material.
it's true it can cut higher than that, I just generally don't try to push it any further because I know it will distort.