Take reasonable business precautions.Be smart.(also, ESCROW)

[Steve E.]

I know I am repeating myself here.

Don't do dumb stuff. Don't give other members your password and let them post stuff as you, so they can sell something. If they are doing that, it's probably not out of expedience. They may be trying to cover their tracks, or hiding that they are selling something they have borrowed. (yes, I think this has happened.)

Don't let some random "chum" of a lathe troll have remote supervised or direct unsupervised access to your computer.

Don't share stuff you intend to patent or trademark, before you patent it. You'll void your patent or lose your trademark.

Yes, of course, it feels good to buy from someone who has a good track record on the board, or a "good reputation." And it seems like a good idea to send your broken cutter-head to someone who has just successfully repaired the heads of 4 other members here. It probably IS a good idea.

Still, take appropriate precautions, to the degree that they are possible. Insure your items, if sending, and send by registered mail or a service that tracks all packages? Take photos of each and every component you place in a box? Know the full real name of the person to whom you are sending? Don't send a whole bunch of different items out at once for repair, to the same guy? Have a backup plan in case this item is lost or damaged?

If buying a system --or trading/bartering massive machines-- especially internationally, use some sort of service that will decrease the possibility of the seller speeding off with your cash/item without delivering the item/cash? Contracts? Guarantees? PAY BY ESCROW. Lawyers if a huge amount of money is at stake? I dunno. Perhaps some of you can chime in here. I am not claiming that I know the right way, it's just hard hearing the bad stories over and over.

People mess up. Mistakes happen due to incompetence (even _I_ am still trying to make good on a disastrous project of 3 years ago--I feel a need to mention this every time this topic comes up). But, also, people can be shifty. They can also become physically ill, bankrupt, mentally ill, drug addicted, divorced. They may die, or they may pretend to die. (yes, this has happened, too...maybe even more than once.) They may appear to be a lot more legit than they are, or they may be riding on a past reputation. They may take advantage of the difficulty of accountability over continents and borders. And people do stuff out of character when their lives and finances and habits get out of control.

Think about Bernie Madoff and how far he got with nothing. We aren't Wall Street, here, but ... there have been small scale crooks here. You've seen some of them. For all I know, there may be others, and we may find out about them soon enough.

I would advise people not to assume that every single person who posts here, or is a sponsor, or even places banner ads, is legit when it comes to business. Even some people who might have been posting a fairly long time. I do my best to vet these things. But I'm just some freelancing guy in Brooklyn with a bicycle, with limited time and resources. And I hear so many conflicting stories, I don't know what or whom to believe a lot of the time.

Even if you are working with friends or longtime acquaintances, keep business transactions businesslike. It may feel a little weird and awkward and "not trusting enough," but you might be quite thankful for it down the line.

Read up on sociopathy. Nobody directly teaches us about it in school, growing up. It's a real thing, and more common than we think. We always think it will happen to someone else. Nah. While you're at it, read up on narcissism, bipolar disorder, stuff like that. It might explain some of what ends up happening here on a very bad day.

Now, on a good day, it'll all work out. But yeah, especially if you are smart about it.

[Sillitoe]

Nice post Steve!
I really agree and appreciate it.

James

[piaptk]

Sticky this!

[recordboy]

Well put indeed.
tis something which needs repeating
from time to time.

the Music/Art world...

cheers

[Steve E.]

!!!

[selectavision]

What do people and things have in common? Quite simply: nothing is as it seems ...

[NickGrooves]

Read and agree. Never heard of buying something on escrow except my house mortgage, but having a reputable 3rd party definitely makes sense if dealing with large sums. I suppose this is why PayPal and eBay "seller protection" and "buyer protection" are popular.

[recordplantvt]

Thanks for your service Steve, this is great.

-Justin

[Steve E.]

At the edge of the New Year, let me strongly suggest something, from my limited understanding:

Use eBay and Paypal, or the equivalent services available in your corner of the planet. Do NOT make payments using Paypal's "Friends and Family" feature, as this disables the features that protect both customers and sellers from fraud and bad business. Those fees are there for a reason.

Don't buy blind. When possible, buy locally. When that's not possible, do your best to have an expert third party examine the equipment you are buying.

I would love it if experienced buyers and sellers could weigh in further on this topic. It's a serious one.

[misjah]

In case of a dispute PayPal nearly always favors the buyer. If shit hits the fan the seller losses his money and the sold item. THE reason i never use paypal for large/heavy/expensive items.

[Steve E.]

well, that's a legit counterargument, as either buyers or sellers CAN be scammers, or even just incompetent.


What scenario protects both fairly?

[2043]

This Post inspired me to do some searching on the Googles... Just wanted to let you all know what I found and that there are escrow programs out there.
I have not tried one yet, but this one appears to be sound. Very simple to use from what I can tell.
https://www.escrow.com/

There were some others out there like at JPMorgan but they looked complicated and not easily done online.

[Steve E.]

^ Actually, this is possibly a great example of "be careful." If one does a google search on escrow dot com, you see a mixture of positive reviews and VERY negative ones. Who to believe?

I'd probably do escrow through an established bank. On the other hand, a couple of other people on this site have recommended this service, though I have no way of knowing if they've used it.