Wanted Vinylrecorder T560-T580

[JP_]

Have you ever used one? Or do you just talk about some theory?

[markrob]

Unfortunately the feedback head of the VR is a fake!
No way to use feedback in the VR system, since this head design doesn't allow a proper feedback pick up.
Souri just mounted an Ortofon concord on the cutterhead and pretend it is picking up the feedback of the the head.

Mixing this signal the the cutting signal can be just worse...

I don't own a VR, but I'm not sure why you say the feedback is "fake". Are you saying the pickup is used only for show and is not part of any feedback loop? Why is this not a proper feedback transducer? Just seems like an uninformed rant to me.

Mark

[JP_]

Its always the same in this forum, most people talking the vinylrecorder or parts of it have no real clue. All vinylrecorders in the the classified comes with the standard head, not the feedback one as Sourido not sell them with the starter setup.
His assumation are based on a theoretical discussion that happens here some time ago.
Yes, the feedback coil has a bit special position within the cutterhead. But Feedback IS working for the main resonance of course, I own one. Trust me.

[JP_]

This continious rant here is so annoying (I suddenly remeber why I had ignored the forum in the last month).
Without Souri great work over the last 15 or more years no one would ever talk about cutting into PVC today. Its absolutley clueless to be so nitpicking without any serious alternative.

[The Shank]

Its absolutley clueless to be so nitpicking without any serious alternative.

Yes yes yes yes.....

[pellegrino707]

Hey Guys, keep calm

I own a Vinylrecorder from almost 3 years, cutting everyday with it as a full time job (beside mastering), and getting good quality cuts.

I can tell you that a cutterhead based on tweeters like the Souri's one doesn't have the possibility to have a 100% trustabe feedback system.
If you buy the book BASIC DISC MASTERING and you see and read how a cutterhead is made and how feeback works, you understand what i mean.
Souri simply placed an ortofon concord on the metal part of the cutterhead, that for sure pick ups something, but i think is not a trustable sistem.
I know one person having the feedback system and we did some comparison test, we couldn't hear a sound improvement.

The dynamic cutterhead of Souri si quite limited, but with good mastering it can sound good.

[Thelurker]

I've seen and heard 1st hand, perfect, loud, flat response cuts on a vinyl recorder once you master a perfect paremetric eq, compressor and limiter chain! As good as the best cuts!

But out of the box from Souri, without this, not so good!

[ObiKutnobi]

I've seen and heard 1st hand, perfect, loud, flat response cuts on a vinyl recorder once you master a perfect paremetric eq, compressor and limiter chain! As good as the best cuts!

But out of the box from Souri, without this, not so good!

Hi Thelurker!

I have heard really good cuts with the T-560, but have never heard or managed to create cuts with full top end at the required loudness. The cuts always slightly alter the highest frequencies and sense of air & detail. Sometimes i have thought they sound perfect, but then realise they are not.

It really can depend on what you cut though. If your cutting older music, that has a duller sound naturally, sure you can get fairly spot on and in some cases, in my opinion, actually sound better than the digital file you cut from.

But when trying to cut more modern music with a brighter top end and healthy amount of air (Above 10khz) from my experience you can keep trying to EQ that top end up and in the end it will fall apart without ever getting there. From my experience its just not attainable with the T-560. Well, at least not attainable at the level you need for a 12" to be played in a club for instance. Don't get me wrong, its a great machine, but can have limits depending on what you cut.

It intrigues me what you have said, because i am not sure how a compressor & Limiter are going to help with a "1:1 translation" when it comes to cutting a finished mastered file. Maybe I have something to learn from you here. How would you use them?

A compressor will alter the dynamics of your audio in a less than transparent way on most occasions, and a limiter will reduce the dynamic range further. Have I got it wrong here, but I thought more dynamic music translates better to vinyl? and that a compressor will definitely not help the music to sound the same. I am happy to be schooled here if need be and need to know if i'm missing the trick. Thanks & Respect to you

[EpicenterBryan]

Maybe I have something to learn from you here. How would you use them?

You might want to look into a multi band compressor. Lots of plug ins out there too these days that does that function. I have 2 hardware stereo 6 band Behringer DSP9024's. I've used them for a decade or so for various tasks. Expensive in the day (about $400 each - More for the AES/EBU option) but you can find used ones on E-bay these days for about $80. They can do wonders to a mix, and can really mess things up until you know what you are doing. Here is a manual that shows what can be done (including simulated tube drive):
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/214416/Behringer-Ultra-Dyne-Pro-Dsp9024.html

Bryan

[ObiKutnobi]

Maybe I have something to learn from you here. How would you use them?

You might want to look into a multi band compressor. Lots of plug ins out there too these days that does that function. I have 2 hardware stereo 6 band Behringer DSP9024's. I've used them for a decade or so for various tasks. Expensive in the day (about $400 each - More for the AES/EBU option) but you can find used ones on E-bay these days for about $80. They can do wonders to a mix, and can really mess things up until you know what you are doing. Here is a manual that shows what can be done (including simulated tube drive):
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/214416/Behringer-Ultra-Dyne-Pro-Dsp9024.html

Bryan

Hey Brian,

Hope you well bro. Thanks for the response.

I am fully versed with Compressors & Multiband compressors, I do mastering work for a number of clients, I understand all the tools and their usual application. I have a hardware multiband Tubetech SMC2B, also various other hardware comps etc. I was trying to understand exactly how these tools were being used by Thelurkers friend to achieve perfect translations to disc. If the file is already mastered by a professional, I ask one thing,

How is a compressor & limiter going to enable better translation to disc?

Thanks, Obi

[Thelurker]

Hi Obi

Bryan has beaten me to it!

Yes you need to start the chain with a multiband comp (4 band). Not to alter the dynamics but to catch any stray peaks (mainly on bands 3 and 4) that will otherwise come through as distortion when cutting LOUD!

After this I suggest a parametric with a custom curve for the head to correct it after taking pink/white noise measurements.

ALL SOURI HEADS NEED THIS! They are never identical, one persons settings that work will not work for you.

You then need to mono all bass

Lastly in the chain you need the cleanest most transparent limiter but driven just below the point of any reduction as a precautionary safety net.

I'll try and get some recordings of the cuts but believe me, they sound as good as if not better then some pressed records.

Doing all the above and still no improvement then you may have a bad SOURI head.

[tim_sp]

'After this I suggest a parametric with a custom curve for the head to correct it after taking pink/white noise measurements.'

Sorry to sound ignorant, but what do you mean by this? Am pretty new to it all, tho have been engineering for over 20 years. Am about to get a VR

[Thelurker]

You need to measure the freq response of the head and then correct with a PEQ in the chain before you do anything.

[shinyskittles]

I do not understand anything, how can someone teach me the art of Lathe cutting?