Technical specialist required for alpha toolex ad12

[Doca Vinyl]

Hi everybody

Docavinyl is a Switzerland record pressing plant and we are happy to exchange our practice using Toolex Alpha AD12

The machine is running but we have this problem nowadays: the middle of the vinyle disc presents a volcano profile.

We had the problem before with the labels teared aside. It was solved using tullis russel label paper and changing the pin.
It’s curving progressively during the pressing until we change it with a new one.
We made these changes and the dome problem in the middle of the disc is remaining unsolved.

Another manufacturer of our friends is telling us that the reason is too much hydraulic pressure.

Do you know how to solve the problem ? Perhaps you can help us

We are searching for an Alpha Toolex technician for a visit ASAP

I put one picture in attachment to illustrate the problem.

Thanks in advance for your quick response.

Best greetings

DocaViny Team

[untitledthe]

Im no expert but send you a message

[Aussie0zborn]

Your AD12 press looks very familiar. I hope you don't mind the colour scheme

You don't need Tullis Russel paper, although it's very good. Your labels were tearing because...

(a) labels too dry
(b) ram speed too fast
(c) stamper label area not roughened enough
(d) vinyl biscuit too cold
(e) label paper too thin
(f) a combinaiton of one or more of the above

What's your hydraulic pressure? It's hard to see exactly what's happening in your photo. It looks like it mght be a problem similar to what occurs when your steam valve opens before the record is removed. Did this porblem start to appear when new centre bushes were installed?

[montalbano]

Hi,
I just give you some ideas coming from what I've experienced in the last 15 years.
From the picture you have attached and the description you have provided, yours looks like a problem of "weak" heat exchange.
In other words, the center bushes don't transfer the heating and the cooling like the moulds do.
You may try to minimize the problem by cooling the records a little bit more, but if you say that the problem is fixed temporarily when you use a new bush, the reason could be that the bush, when screwed, is "just touching" the mould. Most likely because there's a little gap between the overall thickness of the cap of the bush and the depth of the mould where it has to sit. Some may say that the bush would collapse under such condition, but if the gap in minimum, this does not necessarily happen.
First of all, I'd check that the locking nut isn't loose when you unlock the bush after pressing. This is also very telling, because if it has been well-locked, it has to stay like that.
If you are suspecting some gaps, then buy some round aluminium light spacers (.100 mm or so) - you can generally find them in specialized toolshops selling bearings. Choose their inner and outer diameters so that the inner is large enough to let them go across the body of the bush, and the outer is a bit smaller than the cap. This way you will be able to pack some of them under the cap of the bush. For the bottom bush, if you don't want to get crazy holding them in place, place them directly on the mould, where the bush sits. Then lock the bush as usual and see how it goes.
Don't put too many spacers, otherwise your bush will protrude too much from the stamper, causing PVC to be catched around it and unaesthetic black circle on the label. (which will vanish after many pressings, but nobody wants to make rejects).
There is another less probable but always possible explanation: check (especially if the press has not been installed by you or your personnel) the correct coupling between the inlets and outlets of the moulds and the hoses attached to your steam and water lines. Pheenix should have supplied you with a picture showing the "IN" and "OUT" pipings of the moulds. New Pheenix moulds have one single design, with no distinction between top and bottom mould. Assuming that you have connected the "IN" of the bottom mould with the "Steam/Water Supply" line of your energy systems, you obviously have to invert that connection for the top mould. In one of the installations I've visited lately, some connections were inverted and people at the facility weren't even aware of that; they started to notice that by encountering issues during the pressing of very lightweight 12"s, or 7"s (using the kit).
Heating and cooling have to start from the center and progressively go towards the edges, along with the force of the press. If you, by chance, invert the "in" and "out" hoses, you end up cooling the center after the edge, which is not good at all, because you waste energy. And in most cases, you have your record thicker at the center. And if you invert the hoses only on one of the moulds, you have two opposite cycles running together, most likely resulting in warped records.
Cheers
Phil

[untitledthe]

Great info Montalbano

[daristiguieta1]

Hey Aussie, sorry to revive this topic but what do you mean by roughing the label area? we don't do this at the plant I work at, and i think it may be a missing step in our process.. Do you mean you take some sandpaper to the top of the center area of the stamper? Im guessing you do this on a case by case scenario if you encounter label issues, or do you do this as part of your regular stamper set up?

[chjones]

The roughing in the label area is standard for everything we pressed - adhesion issues without.

[Aussie0zborn]

… what do you mean by roughing the label area? we don't do this at the plant I work at, and i think it may be a missing step in our process..

This is certainly a missing step of your process. The label area is roughened with fine sandpaper. This is normally done on the lacquer under running water using a sink with a turntable in it. The lacquer dust created is hot and can stick in the groove giving you a pop or a tick, hence the running water.

The outside 1/2” of the lacquer is also roughened which gives you a larger surface area for the silver to adhere to. The roughening of the label area gives your label something to cling to and not split when subjected to 100 tonnes of pressure while moulding the record. Some plants roughened the father but I’m guessing they didn’t have a rotary rinse sink or didn’t want the risk of lacquer fines sticking in the groove.

[mossboss]

No feedback from the Swiss guys so far, I wonder if they have solved the issue, most suggestions here are valid, To me it seems that the label holes are slightly under sized assuming the tearing is on both sides of the record, if so all records will be the same, torn
If on the other hand it happens randomly than alignment of the labels when they swing in needs to be checked, there is adjustment for the travel of the label arms, when in and when out but that does not guaranty perfect alignment
On the label magazine assembly there are 2 eccentric rings on the crossbar where the label loader arm sits when the label is pressed upon it, you can undo the locking screw than rotate them independently so as to align the label/s with the pins on the press, the pin protruding from the label holder/canister is fairly loose for that very reason, it allows one to get fine alignment by allowing minor maladjustment of the label loader
You can first check it out by going into manual mode load up a pair of labels swing the arms in than activate the pins, they should be able to go through the label holes with out any tearing with these steps you can also establish which side needs adjustment, may be both, once you do that and alignment is perfect any tearing of the labels goes away, than monitor it, if the issue reappears, next step
I am not 100% familiar with the new AD machines, however you need to keep in mind that if the issue is random i would suspect the proximity/micro switch on the machine as well as what triggers it make sure the trigger is not loose, if nice and tight focus on the proximity/micro switch (not sure what they use nowadays) seen both on early machines that I am familiar with
I would also make sure of the following before attempting the above
Moulds are tight on the swing plates, four bolts under nice and tight, locating ring on the swing plates is not loose so when moulds sit on them there is no movement when locking the moulds the say locked and in place, once you swing them into place they stay there locked down, the mold holding down clamps are locked and stay locked, cannot think of anything else
It be nice to know how are you getting on so far

Best