Yeah Right
I have walked quite a number of streets there man spend a bit of time around San Jose and travelled on a weekly basis to Point Arena and Fort Brag Around Russian river and the Nappa Valley from Valejo all the way up Loved it
The best place was a little spot Called Guernsville CA
Adorable quaint little spot full of hippies around their 50-60' with the local dinner still in laminex and chrome from that era
Will never forget the little sunday market there with all this locally produced fruit vegies pies tarts you name it on a barter basis and the 10 odd different varity's of the green tobbaco offered openly quite bizzare for me anyway
I dont think there is such thing as a tough American city
You people are very nice friendly accommodating etc
In over 20 odd trips over there I never had a single issue that gave me some reason to be concerned
Now if you are telling me that due to some twist of fate about some material I happen to have around this improves my being and a few beers to boot man I am getting some air travel tickets real quick
so I can take you up on that beer offer
Don't know where you are located but let me tell you there some butique brewerys there that produce a damn good drop
Not so sure about your local wines though
Even the St Helena red was a little wonting May be I am spoiled
Cheers
Rob The Determined Finn
So the man said
However no word so far
May be he is away and no Strawberrys, Boysenberrys, Goosberry's or Blackberrys
Than again he may be stuck on Mull!!! Berrys
Cheers
However no word so far
May be he is away and no Strawberrys, Boysenberrys, Goosberry's or Blackberrys
Than again he may be stuck on Mull!!! Berrys
Cheers
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
78's
Hey All
Quite funny when English is not your primary or your means of communicating, people who may have an excellent command of the language do not get the Nuisances of the languge it is always interesting when a play on words leaves them scratching their head as to what it's all about giving out a polite answer
My response would have been a sarcastic "Veeeerry Funny mossey, been busy" and left it at that
Cheers
Quite funny when English is not your primary or your means of communicating, people who may have an excellent command of the language do not get the Nuisances of the languge it is always interesting when a play on words leaves them scratching their head as to what it's all about giving out a polite answer
My response would have been a sarcastic "Veeeerry Funny mossey, been busy" and left it at that
Cheers
Chris
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subkontrabob
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- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
78's
Glad about that
On a serious note
This needs a lot of mulling over that is for sure
There so many variables there which shifted over time as the competition was quite untense
Records where not cheap, based on what people earned they where a luxury item even as late as the sixties
Recording Cutting equipment the same
I can recall seeing a comparison somewhere that a Presto K8 cutting lathe was a few dollars dearer than a V8 5 window coupe Ford motor car at around $670 USD around the mid 30's
By comparisson in todays money that would translate to around the cost of a Lexus motor car say $35 K
The average price for 78 around the mid 20's was 60 cents each some going for $1 when wages was around the $ 23 per week so you did not get many of them for a weeks pay
In todays equivalent earnings price comparison you do get more for you money
Emille Berliner the "inventor" of the disc bolted from the USA and set up in Germany so as to avoid Edison's wrath on patent infringments
Edison was a master at that according to historicall accounts
I am sure no royalties where paid by manufacturers to the "inventor" of the disc so there was a lot of record manufacturers as well as the same manufacturer producing a whole series of different named "labels" in the same plant in the Americas as well as in Britain and Europe
So there was a lot of well kept secrets within a plant even amongst the same concern a plant here would do things without sharing the knowledge with a counterpart somewhere else in the same country
All very interesting however a labirynth in so far as trying to establish with some accuracy who did what when and where
Quitely a lot of fun as you unearth a snippet of information here and another there and another somwhere completely unexpected while putting together the puzzle
Cheers
Cheers
On a serious note
This needs a lot of mulling over that is for sure
There so many variables there which shifted over time as the competition was quite untense
Records where not cheap, based on what people earned they where a luxury item even as late as the sixties
Recording Cutting equipment the same
I can recall seeing a comparison somewhere that a Presto K8 cutting lathe was a few dollars dearer than a V8 5 window coupe Ford motor car at around $670 USD around the mid 30's
By comparisson in todays money that would translate to around the cost of a Lexus motor car say $35 K
The average price for 78 around the mid 20's was 60 cents each some going for $1 when wages was around the $ 23 per week so you did not get many of them for a weeks pay
In todays equivalent earnings price comparison you do get more for you money
Emille Berliner the "inventor" of the disc bolted from the USA and set up in Germany so as to avoid Edison's wrath on patent infringments
Edison was a master at that according to historicall accounts
I am sure no royalties where paid by manufacturers to the "inventor" of the disc so there was a lot of record manufacturers as well as the same manufacturer producing a whole series of different named "labels" in the same plant in the Americas as well as in Britain and Europe
So there was a lot of well kept secrets within a plant even amongst the same concern a plant here would do things without sharing the knowledge with a counterpart somewhere else in the same country
All very interesting however a labirynth in so far as trying to establish with some accuracy who did what when and where
Quitely a lot of fun as you unearth a snippet of information here and another there and another somwhere completely unexpected while putting together the puzzle
Cheers
Cheers
Chris
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subkontrabob
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- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
One last remark on mullberrys (couldn't resist....):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jQ32XGavR8#t=4m21s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jQ32XGavR8#t=4m21s
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
Here are some photos of the cutting equipment I will be using, more can be found at my flickr pages:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertvierling/4469379267/in/set-72157623595534955/
It's all mono, Neumann AM31 + Ortofon tube amps (GO 511) + cutting heads + spare cutters. most of the cutters are microgroove, but there are also a few standard groove ones, which I will be using for this project.
AFAIK this setup was taken into use in Sweden in the fifties, and later sold off to the finnish broadcasting corporation (YLE), which in turn sold it to one of their retired engineers, who sold it to the current owner.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertvierling/4469379267/in/set-72157623595534955/
It's all mono, Neumann AM31 + Ortofon tube amps (GO 511) + cutting heads + spare cutters. most of the cutters are microgroove, but there are also a few standard groove ones, which I will be using for this project.
AFAIK this setup was taken into use in Sweden in the fifties, and later sold off to the finnish broadcasting corporation (YLE), which in turn sold it to one of their retired engineers, who sold it to the current owner.
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Aussie0zborn
- Posts: 1828
- Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:23 am
- Location: Australia
- Contact:
WHat a nice vintage cutting system. So how is this project going???
MossBoss:: Why cant you use nickel stampers? What about shellac 78rpm discs that had a sheet of paper inside? Do you propose to use paper? why do yo need to introsuce noise in the cut when records can do that by themselves? Just curious.
MossBoss:: Why cant you use nickel stampers? What about shellac 78rpm discs that had a sheet of paper inside? Do you propose to use paper? why do yo need to introsuce noise in the cut when records can do that by themselves? Just curious.
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subkontrabob
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- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
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That's right, I like it too! Project is going well, we have received some funding, and the lathe is being restored (rewired basically). I'm just a little worried, because I have no experience in cutting at all besides watching Didier cut an acetate dub for me 
But there will be an experienced cutter supervising/teaching me so I guess it should be ok. The setup being rather primitive, in mono without variable pitch etc. there should be less potential sources of failure.
next thing to do is ordering some 14" lacquers.......
But there will be an experienced cutter supervising/teaching me so I guess it should be ok. The setup being rather primitive, in mono without variable pitch etc. there should be less potential sources of failure.
next thing to do is ordering some 14" lacquers.......
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blacknwhite
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- Location: US
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Steve E.
- Site Admin
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- Contact:
For the record, this exact question is a MAJOR question of mine. it is SO major that it was my initial impetus in starting the site, and then my interests expanded.
Mossboss, I think it is amazing and wonderful that you have shellac material lying around. I had heard that it was basically impossible to use nowadays, because some aspect of the shellac material/pressing would chemically hurt the compounds used in vinyl. In other words, even storing these compounds near each other would create some sort of taint. I didn't really understand this but I took it as gospel.
Or maybe that the shellac would contaminate the pressing equipment such that it could not then be used with vinyl? I can't even tell you who explained this to me.
So, yes, I would be VERY interested in 78-style styli.
vinyl 78s that would wear out on victrolas....that would be OK by me.
By the way, cactus needles in victrolas allow acetate playback. Yes, the acetates wear out after a VERY few plays but at least they can be played. A certain Mr. Dilg recommended spraying the acetates with Pledge to reduce friction.
Mossboss, I think it is amazing and wonderful that you have shellac material lying around. I had heard that it was basically impossible to use nowadays, because some aspect of the shellac material/pressing would chemically hurt the compounds used in vinyl. In other words, even storing these compounds near each other would create some sort of taint. I didn't really understand this but I took it as gospel.
Or maybe that the shellac would contaminate the pressing equipment such that it could not then be used with vinyl? I can't even tell you who explained this to me.
So, yes, I would be VERY interested in 78-style styli.
vinyl 78s that would wear out on victrolas....that would be OK by me.
By the way, cactus needles in victrolas allow acetate playback. Yes, the acetates wear out after a VERY few plays but at least they can be played. A certain Mr. Dilg recommended spraying the acetates with Pledge to reduce friction.
Last edited by Steve E. on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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subkontrabob
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- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
just came back from the studio! Spent there over five hours assisting motor setup, exploring the lathe, going through all accessories and parts, and taking lots of photos. 
The 3-speed Lyrec was rewired, with a nice new switching panel. And we got the platter turning in all 3 speeds
Will probably upload some pictures tomorrow.
cheers,
Bob
The 3-speed Lyrec was rewired, with a nice new switching panel. And we got the platter turning in all 3 speeds
Will probably upload some pictures tomorrow.
cheers,
Bob
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
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subkontrabob
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:40 am
- Location: Helsinki, Finland
First cutting experience
Here's the story, pictures will be added later:
So last sunday I went to the studio to make my first cuts. The owner, Robi, had already made a succesful test cut from a CD a few days before. We decided to go ahead and cut some violin on lacquer. The cutting head that is currently mounted on the machine has a microgroove stylus on it, so we cut at 33 1/3 rpm.
Robi used some old lacquers he got with the lathe
Signal chain was Beyerdynamic ribbon mic/U47 -> urei clone preamp + compressor -> Ortofon cutting amp
So I put a lacquer on the platter, centered it with the microscope, switched on the vacuum cleaner & stylus heating and cut a few lines to see how everything works. There seemed to be slight imperfections in the disc, because the grooves seemed to be shallower in one part of the disc. So I moved the cutting head further inside and did 2 short test cuts to have a comparison between the beyer and the U47. They played back surprisingly good considering the age of the lacquer and the lack of experience of the operator.
After this the violinist wanted to cut J.S.Bachs chaconne, so I flipped the lacquer and started the cutting process again, when the cutting head suddenly began to vibrate and rattle!!!!
I immediately lifted the head, and peeked through the microscope - yes indeed, at some points the groove bottom looked different. So I readjusted the cutting heads height and retried. To my relief the cut seemed to normal, so we started again to cut the chaconne. Towards the end of the cut there was again a problem with irregularities in the lacquer. The cutterhead lifted off completely, and as a result the last few minutes were unreproducable. The stuff before that turned out quite ok, as I had tweaked the levels and limiting for minimum distortion (well, the minimum I can come up with ).
chip suction was a problem, at some point it worked, and then again it didn't. We tried different settings with the vacuum cleaner, but in the end even at full power it barely worked. During the long cut at the end I was blowing chip to the middle the most time, but it still was caught up with the stylus plenty times. Wish I had a suitable brush......
Boy, that was a fun afternoon!!!!
What do you guys think, are these old lacquers warped, or are there adjustments to be made to the lathe? I know the small oil- pot and the spring that are connected to the cutting heads lever system are supposed to influence the reaction of the cutting head to variations in the cutting medium. Any thoughts??
So last sunday I went to the studio to make my first cuts. The owner, Robi, had already made a succesful test cut from a CD a few days before. We decided to go ahead and cut some violin on lacquer. The cutting head that is currently mounted on the machine has a microgroove stylus on it, so we cut at 33 1/3 rpm.
Robi used some old lacquers he got with the lathe
Signal chain was Beyerdynamic ribbon mic/U47 -> urei clone preamp + compressor -> Ortofon cutting amp
So I put a lacquer on the platter, centered it with the microscope, switched on the vacuum cleaner & stylus heating and cut a few lines to see how everything works. There seemed to be slight imperfections in the disc, because the grooves seemed to be shallower in one part of the disc. So I moved the cutting head further inside and did 2 short test cuts to have a comparison between the beyer and the U47. They played back surprisingly good considering the age of the lacquer and the lack of experience of the operator.
After this the violinist wanted to cut J.S.Bachs chaconne, so I flipped the lacquer and started the cutting process again, when the cutting head suddenly began to vibrate and rattle!!!!
I immediately lifted the head, and peeked through the microscope - yes indeed, at some points the groove bottom looked different. So I readjusted the cutting heads height and retried. To my relief the cut seemed to normal, so we started again to cut the chaconne. Towards the end of the cut there was again a problem with irregularities in the lacquer. The cutterhead lifted off completely, and as a result the last few minutes were unreproducable. The stuff before that turned out quite ok, as I had tweaked the levels and limiting for minimum distortion (well, the minimum I can come up with
).chip suction was a problem, at some point it worked, and then again it didn't. We tried different settings with the vacuum cleaner, but in the end even at full power it barely worked. During the long cut at the end I was blowing chip to the middle the most time, but it still was caught up with the stylus plenty times. Wish I had a suitable brush......
Boy, that was a fun afternoon!!!!
What do you guys think, are these old lacquers warped, or are there adjustments to be made to the lathe? I know the small oil- pot and the spring that are connected to the cutting heads lever system are supposed to influence the reaction of the cutting head to variations in the cutting medium. Any thoughts??