@ Fraggle
Yeah I do think so. My feeling is that the Kingston has the best bass sound but the weakest mid and high end. If you compare them to the master the Kingston sounds the most distant from the source.
The VR seems to combine all the bass layers into one compressed sound whilst the Kingston keeps them separate.
So here are four screenshots taken from a ten second average over the same period.
The yellow line is the master.
Kingston (Fraggle)
The Carvery (bongo Jim)
Montalbano
Duomo
Interestingly, looking at the bass of the Kingston it is the closest to the source, however in the 1k and 3k areas there are two clear areas where the head has dips, up to 4db at its peak. These are two of the most sensitive frequencies in the ear so it is not surprising the cut sounds the most different from the source.
The bass on the Duomo and Montalbano is a fair bit lower than it should be but I would put that down to the VR RIAA. IMHO the head has to be EQd to get a realistic result.
I think flo's point is a good one. Flo, if you want to upload a track we can all cut it and send the records over to you. Would be good as well to see the difference between some more heads. At the end this isn't mean't to be a pissing contest between Kingston an VR... I think we all know now that the results can be very good with a VR, equally with a Kingston.
Yeah I do think so. My feeling is that the Kingston has the best bass sound but the weakest mid and high end. If you compare them to the master the Kingston sounds the most distant from the source.
The VR seems to combine all the bass layers into one compressed sound whilst the Kingston keeps them separate.
So here are four screenshots taken from a ten second average over the same period.
The yellow line is the master.
Kingston (Fraggle)
The Carvery (bongo Jim)
Montalbano
Duomo
Interestingly, looking at the bass of the Kingston it is the closest to the source, however in the 1k and 3k areas there are two clear areas where the head has dips, up to 4db at its peak. These are two of the most sensitive frequencies in the ear so it is not surprising the cut sounds the most different from the source.
The bass on the Duomo and Montalbano is a fair bit lower than it should be but I would put that down to the VR RIAA. IMHO the head has to be EQd to get a realistic result.
I think flo's point is a good one. Flo, if you want to upload a track we can all cut it and send the records over to you. Would be good as well to see the difference between some more heads. At the end this isn't mean't to be a pissing contest between Kingston an VR... I think we all know now that the results can be very good with a VR, equally with a Kingston.
mmmm some FAKE with all my respect friends
I have had the luck and misfortune of owning a vinylrecorder, a vestax vrx2000, and to try and cut it with a kingston in Soluthurn (Vinylium)
Kingston its better, do not understand why some people say vinylrecorder it is better, with all my respect ¿where its your ears?..... I wonder if I'll be a Martian
I know people who used vinylrecorder and now uses kingston
This test smells like,,,,
Cheers
I have had the luck and misfortune of owning a vinylrecorder, a vestax vrx2000, and to try and cut it with a kingston in Soluthurn (Vinylium)
Kingston its better, do not understand why some people say vinylrecorder it is better, with all my respect ¿where its your ears?..... I wonder if I'll be a Martian
I know people who used vinylrecorder and now uses kingston
This test smells like,,,,
Cheers
Marcos
I'd watch your what you imply hermano...
Just because you couldn't use the VR it doesn't make it a bad machine. The Vestax admittedly is crap! Never have I EVER heard anyone say a good word on its behalf.
The three VR results above are from three very reputable companies that have between them probably cut tens of thousands of dubs for happy customers. We also all own vms70s so know what the comparison is.
The Vinylrecorder is NOT a 'plug-and-play' type of machine. it takes a lot of practice and patience to get the right results. It did for me anyway...
Just because you couldn't use the VR it doesn't make it a bad machine. The Vestax admittedly is crap! Never have I EVER heard anyone say a good word on its behalf.
The three VR results above are from three very reputable companies that have between them probably cut tens of thousands of dubs for happy customers. We also all own vms70s so know what the comparison is.
The Vinylrecorder is NOT a 'plug-and-play' type of machine. it takes a lot of practice and patience to get the right results. It did for me anyway...
@ BongoJim
thats very intersting.
But it is not a problem to cut with more trebles.
the thing is that i still think when i compare the sounds that the kinsgton sounds closer especially the sounds are very close to the original file.
The sound from mon. and duo are very good no doubt but it still has the vinylrecorder characteristic in it. the tebles sound a bit harsh and aggressive which is typical for the vr.
don't get me wrong i'm talking about bloody fine adjusting here. someone without an ear for mastering would probably not pick it up.
I compared the cuts on two different systems I'll try it on a pa.
I'm surprised by the good results from the vr to be honest.
But still if i had the choice again i would go for the kinsgton again i just love the linear sound and it is easy to cut.
I'm cutting with the basic package everybody else who cuts with the vr is at the limit of the machine with shit loads of experience.
I'm not even close to the limit so far.
Cheers
thats very intersting.
But it is not a problem to cut with more trebles.
the thing is that i still think when i compare the sounds that the kinsgton sounds closer especially the sounds are very close to the original file.
The sound from mon. and duo are very good no doubt but it still has the vinylrecorder characteristic in it. the tebles sound a bit harsh and aggressive which is typical for the vr.
don't get me wrong i'm talking about bloody fine adjusting here. someone without an ear for mastering would probably not pick it up.
I compared the cuts on two different systems I'll try it on a pa.
I'm surprised by the good results from the vr to be honest.
But still if i had the choice again i would go for the kinsgton again i just love the linear sound and it is easy to cut.
I'm cutting with the basic package everybody else who cuts with the vr is at the limit of the machine with shit loads of experience.
I'm not even close to the limit so far.
Cheers
-
montalbano
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:03 pm
- Location: Settala (MI), Italy
- Contact:
Wait for the cutting with VMS70 on Souris disc ... I promised it and it's coming in a short time. Suction failed at 1/2 of the cut so it wont be complete. But it will be posted. Suction fails happen frequently with the Neumann on Souris disc. The reason is the combination of suction and feedback as explained in another post by me some months ago.
Anyway - so far: congrats to all, IMHO all good cuts, all good for any dubplate buyer.
Slight differences among them, but not big issues overall - this means that the forum is populated with cutters who know what they're doing.
After all, what do dubplates buyers want? They want their masterpiece in vinyl format sounding OK, I mean decently. That's all.
And this is a great post because it gives a concrete range of samples to listen and compare to any potential buyer of these two "little" machines.
I don't want to be on one or another side, Vinylium or Vinylrecorder or whatever. Everyone should be able to judge by himself.
The next challenge will be a deephouse track with a powerful deep bass and right "above" it a fully wide open stereo Rhodes with massive bass frequencies. Fiercing analog hihats up to almost 20 Khz and vocals as well!
How do you deal with all this shit?
The answer will be up to the Lathetrolls cutters!
P.S. Who doesn't post a cut, is not allowed to say anything. Too easy. Sound speaks by itself here ... !
Anyway - so far: congrats to all, IMHO all good cuts, all good for any dubplate buyer.
Slight differences among them, but not big issues overall - this means that the forum is populated with cutters who know what they're doing.
After all, what do dubplates buyers want? They want their masterpiece in vinyl format sounding OK, I mean decently. That's all.
And this is a great post because it gives a concrete range of samples to listen and compare to any potential buyer of these two "little" machines.
I don't want to be on one or another side, Vinylium or Vinylrecorder or whatever. Everyone should be able to judge by himself.
The next challenge will be a deephouse track with a powerful deep bass and right "above" it a fully wide open stereo Rhodes with massive bass frequencies. Fiercing analog hihats up to almost 20 Khz and vocals as well!
How do you deal with all this shit?
The answer will be up to the Lathetrolls cutters!
P.S. Who doesn't post a cut, is not allowed to say anything. Too easy. Sound speaks by itself here ... !
ok i will try to put togehter something next week.
i also hope to organize a laquer cut on kingston and vms70 or vms80
and polycarbonate cut on kingston and vms70/80
on my side i will use flat , plug and play settings on both systems. if the system alows it.
it will be
1k ref tone.0db 5cm/s 20s.
15k -20db 10s.
10k -20db 10s.
5k -20db 10s.
100 hz 10s.
30 hz 10s.
music 60s.
so a little bit more than 2 minutes.
i add some testtones because we can study the harmonic distortion on various material. could be that this is way different on polycarbonate , pvc etc...
then you can send me your cut.
please start exactly at 11 inch.
i think 45 rpm. then we can minimize the geometry error...
i also hope to organize a laquer cut on kingston and vms70 or vms80
and polycarbonate cut on kingston and vms70/80
on my side i will use flat , plug and play settings on both systems. if the system alows it.
it will be
1k ref tone.0db 5cm/s 20s.
15k -20db 10s.
10k -20db 10s.
5k -20db 10s.
100 hz 10s.
30 hz 10s.
music 60s.
so a little bit more than 2 minutes.
i add some testtones because we can study the harmonic distortion on various material. could be that this is way different on polycarbonate , pvc etc...
then you can send me your cut.
please start exactly at 11 inch.
i think 45 rpm. then we can minimize the geometry error...