Cutting Soundscriber blanks

[tape]

have anone here tried cutting Cutting using Soundscriber blanks?

I recently got a big box of them....but as far as I know the soundscriber embosses grooves rather that cut them.
The discs are green transparent and very thin, like flexidiscs...

thanks

[cuttercollector]

It can't hurt anything, unless you melt tihe plastic on a heated stylus. Why not try it? Not sure if these were actually harder or softer than lacquer. Now they are old so some of the plasticizer chemicals have outgased over time, and they are probably more brittle than when new. I would still think softer than a cd blank. Perhaps the same as standard vinyl record material or plastic plates? Has anyone tried embossing on lacquer rather than cutting?

[tape]

ok - the sound quality that these produce are really really good!

I have cut mine with a steel-needle at 33 rpm.

The bad thing is extremely high surface noise:-(
but underneath that, there is really clear sound with a good HF-response.

I am very new to cutting, so I have no experience adjusting weight or angles, but it would make sense that there are too much weight on the cutterarm so the surface of the disc is geting ripped up...

any tips will be welcomed..

[JayDC]

get sapphire styli. Steel, unless extremely sharp is noisy.
Cutting angle is also important in getting a clean sound.
Make sure your setup is off the ground, stabilized and level.
If you can put some thick dense carpet foam between the desk and machine. Also get your vacuum as far away from the lathe as possible.

Trial and Error prevails.

[edaudio]

I had a soundscriber dictation machine that I picked up in a st Louis resale shop back in t '75. Wish I still had it. Drove it with a hifi amp using te EQ to approximate an RIAA curve. I still have the discs I "embossed" on it - I found clear acetate - the kind used for project folders - worked the best at the time.

Obviously not even remotely for real, but fun...

[tape]

ok - I did it.

I manged to make several perfect cuts with these - no hiss, no surface noise, perfect!

I used a saphire needle with no heating.
I am using a Bell Record o Phone that cuts at 33rpm.

The downside:

I tried for hours to make it work, adjusting angle an weight, all just gave hiss
The thing that seemed to make all the difference was when I fiddled with the needle itself, somehow putting it deeper in or further away from the hole. Or possibly a bit up, down or to the sides...the fitting of the needle into the hole dont seem very logical...

I made 3 discs with no problem. For the last one I turned it over - WITHOUT CHANGING ANYTHING - and it just squeked. Now cant seem to get back.

I dont think the problem is caused by needle wear - I assume that when you just made a good sounding cut, the wear cant be so dramatic that it will go from perfect sound to squeak and hiss so suddenly?

hope for tips....

[cuttercollector]

I can vouch for the whole thing about moving the stylus in or out slightly and hitting a quiet sweet spot for a particular surface. I was also using an unheated microgroove sapphire stylus. I was doing most of my experiments @ 45RPM. I think the slower you go the worse the issue is. I don't recall it being such an issue with my old Recordio @ 78 non microgroove.
Although I was experimenting with lacquer which is apparently less critical than plastic from what I read here, I found a sweet spot that worked for several types of blank lacquers I had but some of the old ones hissed badly no matter what. The chip looked "drier" comming off also. It is possible to get a silent groove with no heat but it is tricky. I think it has to do with the so called "burnishing facits" on the stylus, but I don't understand the geometry of it that well. Moving the stylus in or out changes the cutting angle and so it would change how the facits contact the material. Keep experimenting.

[edaudio]

A heated stylus definitely lowers noise and improves high frequency response. It's certainly worth experimenting with, provided you have suction (to prevent the chip from sticking to the stylus and catching fire).

The Westrex 2B manual indicates four variations of the SP-77232 tapered stylus:

detail-1: For standard goroove (3mil / 78) hot-stylus recording.

detail-2: For Micro groove (1mil) hot-stylus recording

detail-3: For standard groove, cold-stylus recording on lacquer

detail-4: For microgroove, cold-stylus recording on lacquer.

Apparently this was a time when the heater coil was not integral with the stylus, so the Westrex manual suggested using 7 1/2 turns of .005-inch (diameter) wire having a resistance of about 32-ohms per foot that can be wound on a .029-inch mandrel (or #69 drill). The coil is driven through a 6-ohm variable resistor by a 6.3VAC transformer with an ammeter in series.

Depending on the diameter (more current on the outside, less on the inside), they suggest up to but not exceeding 1amp (which sounds a little high to me).

I hope this helps.

eddie

[tape]

I can vouch for the whole thing about moving the stylus in or out slightly and hitting a quiet sweet spot for a particular surface. I was also using an unheated microgroove sapphire stylus. I was doing most of my experiments @ 45RPM. I think the slower you go the worse the issue is. I don't recall it being such an issue with my old Recordio @ 78 non microgroove.
Although I was experimenting with lacquer which is apparently less critical than plastic from what I read here, I found a sweet spot that worked for several types of blank lacquers I had but some of the old ones hissed badly no matter what. The chip looked "drier" comming off also. It is possible to get a silent groove with no heat but it is tricky. I think it has to do with the so called "burnishing facits" on the stylus, but I don't understand the geometry of it that well. Moving the stylus in or out changes the cutting angle and so it would change how the facits contact the material. Keep experimenting.

OK - I have no option for hot stylus at the moment.

There is two strange things about this experiment:

1: That is at all possible to get a perfect cut, with no appearent stylus wear - without a hot stylus. Which is great, if only it could last...

2: That it is possible that the situation changes all of a sudden to the worse without any changes made to cutting angle or weight.

My saphireneedles are clearly shorter in length than the steel needles, i's possible to punch the saphire all the way in the hole, so only the saphire itself are visible - I checked the position: it was 90 degrees as it should be...

ahh...this is tricky - I wish there were a 'click' or something, indicating that the needle was in the correct position...seems like the needle can fit in numerous ways into the hole...

[cuttercollector]

I forget what head you are cutting with. If it was desined as were most of the old ones with a setscrew to ighten the stylus in place facing the opposite direction (180 degrees) from where the stylus contacts the groove, then if you make the flat on the stylus face the setscrew, and the stylus itself is made correctly the point should be in the correct orientation rotationally about it's own axis. The only question then is how far do you push it up into the head. As I said, this makes a diffference in cutting angle. The further in you place it, the steeper the cutting angle.
I would start with it out too far, ad weight until you are cutting at the correct depth, then slowly move it in till you get the lowest noise possible for that material. You might have to subtract weight as you move the stylus in and increase cutting angle. Just tryand jeep the depth of groove in the ball park. There is probably a point where it will start to make an increased ammount of noise. Stop and pull it back out a tiny bit. The changes in how far you move the stylus in or out should be very tiny, perhaps the width of a pencil line or less. I would not worry too much about wearing out your stylus. You either have to accidently hit bottom on a laquer over aluminum blank (DMM ) or drop it or something. I predict whatever plastic you are cutting has a change in hardness from one side to the other and you just pushed it "over the edge" into the noisy area.
The transition can be sudden. Even to the point where it is ok at the outside but not at the inside of the disc.

[tape]

I am using a magnetic head.

first of all thank your for the good suggestions.

One thing I dont get is the difference from putting the needle in or out, and the angle adjustment screw - dont they do the same thing?
making it stupid to fiddle with both?

Now everything is wrong, cant make a proper cut even with a laquer, no matter which needle.
I am still very new at this, and the position of weight and angle seems very very delicate. I get screech all over the place.

It feels quite frustrating to have been able to make serveral perfect cuts, and being unable to coninue because I cant find the correct weighting / angling......

A 'home recording' manual would be good - although I have searched, without finding one...

On my Bell record o phone he weight and angle adjustment has no indicators of theier position what so ever, making it very difficult to know what you are doing, and also remembering which positions worked...