Pressing

[mossboss]

Hey all
I am wondering what is happening around the world in so far as vinyl pressing goes
We have another advert here for a press for sale
It is strange that after after they have been installed somewhere Up and running etc
By the description only 3000 where made on this machine
Hardly a profitable excersise
The amount of machines idle around the place is rather large
It seems that the bigger plants are getting bigger and the smaller ones shutting down
Is there a movement to to good old bad days where the industry was monopolised?
The trend is pointing that way
Or is it that people or finding that it is not that easy to do
I am not sure
Any comments or views on this from anyone?
Cheers

[suckerpunch]

Im guessing it is a lot harder then people think. I cant wait to get my hands on a couple machines and get going.

I think its like when you buy that old car and you only picture it finished, then you realize "Shit this is taking longer then I tought, it cost more then i thought and its not easy to do by myself"

[Nottinghamtoolexalpha2]

Using an old thread for this - but it's essentially the same principal ...

As the list goes - there are 3 pressing houses left in the UK, the Vinyl Factory, Bob Total , and the Pheonix guys whom I don't know of -
(-would like to visit just to see the gear...!)

What Im wondering is, 10 years ago when Chris King started Independent in Nottingham, there was a NEW demand for vinyl - kids were revisting the format and embracing it as the New world " Here to stay...etc"
- and at that time , we never thought demand would dry up, being such a niche market at the time , and very few doing it - the prestige was emmense..!

10 years later, the plant has gone, altho thats only to do with a muppet buying a record pressing plant with no interest or idea how to run a manufacturing buisness - there was plenty of work when we shut - otherwise Bob Total would'nt have set up..sorry, beef over..!.

What my point is - I enjoy the work, whether profitable or not, I have ran my little press at a break even point many times just to keep it afloat without resorting to un-licenced product - just to have a little inpendent operation going for small, sometimes one -off customers, the fact that I had a retired Precision Toolmaker helping me out who could make guage's from scratch was a godsend in setting up plumbing, boiler, tower etc - these all cost to get them done professionally -

Without rambling on much longer - Whilst My heart is in Manufacture, my technical ability to run a Toolex auto machine is pretty good, knowledge of maintenance sketchy,( as with an onsite engineer, I just cconcentrated on getting the finished product out of a reasonable quality - )
- Would it be economically viable , in a climate where litrally everyone is running out of money, to set up. maintain, and run a small pressing operation - very small - just me - to a community that has got three professional concerns that already cater for a decling market..?

I say all this as I am desperately trying to rationalise my decision in both looking for a machine, ploughing what would be tantermount to a second mortgage to fund - as Mossy says - starting from scratch - asI would have to, as all the plumbing has disappered from my old place - throing £25,000 at business that might at the end ne non-profitable and have little or no demand would just amount to vanity pressings ....

On top of all this - try justifying all this to your wife - whom I have spoken to about this at length - the expense, the time away from the house setting up, all without income while it's happening....

is it REALLY worth it...?

....of course ...I'll leave it open to debate....

Pro's and cons please......

CC.

[mossboss]

CC
You got the story a bit wrong mate in so far as Total is concerned
The ex independent presses are still there
The original presses 8 of them are in production ex Columbia in South America and Bulgaria
One press went to italy ex nottingham the rest still there in the UK
You are alluding to un-licensed products so obviously you are aware of the simple fact that all plants in the UK did bootlegs Pirate and counterfeit records for the extra £ or two which ensured their survival
Good bye illegal work good bye pressing plant
Also you missed mentioning Black Diamond in Lutton still pressing
Phoenix runs one double 7" Lened and 3 x 12" Leneds again
Back to your plans in starting up again Why not?
What I dont get is why you sold up in the first place? If it was the passing away of your friend who is to replace him in your new place?
There is enough expertise in the UK for theses presses at around the £40 per hour so I suppose you can work away and any little bit you make if any you can pass it on to these guys That way everyone is happy as well as having the vanity bit fully satisfied
Whatever you do just make sure you do not establish a low floor price for your output as it will only make it harder for you to keep on doing it
Despite what ever people say pressing vinyl is a thankless task and if you happen to press for a distributor it is even harder
For far to long even though plants do not make a profit the vinyl buyer still considers vinyl as a "luxury item" which is eye opening indeed
30p on a 12" record ensures the plants survival I doubt that the vinyl buyer would resist the purchase if there is a 50 cents difference in the retail price
If the record is of good quality as well as it has desirable music on it will sell no doubt about that Seen it to many times where a 1000 pressing order was repeated 3-4 times in a very short time like within a week
Well here is my penny's worth and I am sure some dickhead would pop up and tell me he will not use my services as I have a mossy centric view about this which is simply wrong
WTF just as one can choose his supplier there is no obligation for a pressing plant to take on work from all and sundry
Plenty of painful clients out there who just dont get the medium its shortcomings as well as its benefits
People think of getting paid for they time as it is the only commodity they have to offer
When they get on the bandwagon of vinyl they fail to relise there is a capital requirement for equipment plant premises besides the expertise that has taken many a year to acquire so as to be able to produce a record
In particular if it is a fully integrated plant with cutting plating pressing in-house
Quoting someone else:
"they get a lump of coal up their ass which they want to turn into a diamond"
Ok Good luck with it all
Cheers

[mossboss]

Im guessing it is a lot harder then people think. I cant wait to get my hands on a couple machines and get going.

I think its like when you buy that old car and you only picture it finished, then you realize "Shit this is taking longer then I tought, it cost more then i thought and its not easy to do by myself"

When do you want to start mate?
Plenty of presses around man
No problems
There is a complete pressing plant available right now for about 400,000 euro's
Lock stock and a smoking barrel sorry boiler I meant
Shift it install it start pressing man
Easy like having a nice soft bowel movement
To dear? or well there are at least 5 machine gathering dust somewhere in Germany
Ex curved in London on pallets for about 3 years lot less cost about 50,000 euro's you can get them to your premisses in the USA
Doubt if the guy who owns them will ever start a pressing plant
Spend the balance up to about 2-250,000 so as to get them up and running
Than you are talking mate
You can than get nickelled and dimmed from vinyl romantics of which there are quite a few out there who think they are doing the game a good deed
They fail to recognise that a pressing plants survival is assured with just a small profit which they go out of their way to deny them of it
Strange as it sounds they want the very source of their romance to go broke and die some kind of a bizarre notion that I do not get
There are a lot of people out there looking for the fruits of vinyl record pressing but I am afraid this is not so
Lucky if you get the peelings let alone some of the fruit
Oh I am in it because I love it not that I am rolling in the profits derived from the task
So here you are my friend a short intro or a reality check into the world of Vinyl Record Pressing
Oh I am sure there will be a few broadsides from some people over this but than again it is what it is
The simple fact is that plants around the world shut down as they are unprofitable not even breaking even
That is of course doing legitimate work without resorting to bootlegging or pirating and worst of all counterfeiting selling the output to unsuspecting consumers as the genuine article
So go for it man
We are here to help you with any issues you may encounter in the process
That you can be sure of
But you get going first after you do your homework on it mate as it is like an old car restoration but you can enjoy driving the car after is done
Not sure the same applies for a pressing plant as once you got up and running than another kind of pain starts a financial one which is hard to deal with once you run out of the ready cash or your credit lines

Cheers

[Nottinghamtoolexalpha2]

Hey Mossy, thanks for the wise words - I ve been talking to a few a friends here in the Uk about getting my little operation together again..

...now Ive got my motivation to match the enthusiasm, Im putting everthing down on paper...

...whisch is making very interesting reading, as I didnt realise how much my old friend's knowledge and wisdom came in useful...!

Writing it all down, it seems Im short in a few areas- not on skills - altho' my plumbing can a bit shady - but mainly on logistics - what to start on first - so 'ill be starting a new thread on getting all this together - target for next summer, funding sholud allow for six months, as I have my eye on a little industrial unit which has lain empty for a while ( first 3 months rent free...!)

Hopefully all problems I come across can be rectified/beaten about/discussed and laughed on here, as theres so much experience between Mike Oz, MR RCA Indianapolis the german Toolex guys, and yourself that most things should be overcome....hmmm...hopefully...!

...Now..just need to find a machine......


CC.

[concretecowboy71]

I would guess that larger plants keep on truckin' because they have the knowledge base that is needed for that kind of operation.

Gotta Groove was a lucky small operator because the principle people came from a background of plastics manufacturing. Even they are still learning and overcoming obstacles everyday!

Most small guys probably don't understand that setting up something like a pressing plant is a life altering situation and either run out of time or money before they work out the kinks so they can become profitable.

Nothing beats writing a business plan and seeing if you can really make money before jumping into something because it seems like it might be fun.

What do I know? Just shooting in the dark.

[mossboss]

Hey Concrete man
You seen the existing plant going throuh the hoops for a while now
By your own admission the dudes there are ex plastics industry which would already give them a head start
I am sure if you asked them they will tell you that they never really expected so much trouble or issues in pressing records
It seems simple enough however it has its own unique twist that frasturates no end as one is using stema electricity as well as paper in the process wich throws the whole damn thing into the unkown so far as injection moulding or extrusion guys are concerned
Many 10's of thousands of records need to be pressed before someone can call themselves a pressing man with the ability to fix issues on the fly
Rejects in a pressing plant is a nightmare as it is a case of energy, material, time, labour as well as labels wasted a sagnificant loss of money which has just flown out the window
If rejects are kept at around 5-8% that is a good mesure of the pressing man which of course must include the whole production run cold start end of run as well as any white labels which we use so as to settle the press down on the start of a run
Cannot understand people who embark on the pressing wagon and produce crap which they call a record after around a 50-60% reject rate which is not uncommon for newcomers in the game
It must be this internet thing as well a forii such as this that gives people a false sense of security
One can read the best how to ply tennis book come primer as well as how to play the game to win
Unless you get on that court so as to do it you are no more than a good reader with a great appreciation of the ins and outs of tennis but cannot hit a ball to save your life
Thats fine you can talk about it in the pub with your buddies
The difference of course is the fact that in a pressing plant you need a couple of hundred bucks a day when you put the key in the door to open the place up so as to manufacture records and the bleeding starts from there on, day in day out
What a great thought to look forward to?
Any way I am off my soap box now
Cheers

[concretecowboy71]

Yes Moss Man, you are right.

They have told me that they never expected it to be such a hard process to nail down. It's like hitting a moving target.

Each week though, they press more keepers than the week before.