Building a cutter head / homemade lathe

[potholeskinny]

Hi All,
I am new to this forum. I am very interested in digging deep into cutting records. First off, I am hoping to start by getting a Recordio. I am waiting on a friend to see if I can acquire one from his family. I don't see many on ebay and when I do, I lose the auction.

Being I don't have much money to start with, I would like to dig in by building my own lathe and cutting head. Does anybody have any plans published or posted with parts needed, instructional, etc.? I am looking to be part of the community and not a leach, so any feedback would be appreciated and I will share my trials and tribulations via youtube/blog.

Thanks all!

[mossboss]

Hey Pot
Welcome aboard
Mate do a search here
There is plenty to see and learn
Making cutting heads there are quite a few post's here as well as other links Lathes may be another issue but a descent T/T should do the trick
Any way start searching right here
You are in the right place
Cheers

[potholeskinny]

Thanks Chris!!
I have done extensive searches over the past few days before I posted. I can't seem to find any viable info to get me started. There is alot of info out there by veterans like yourself, but I can't find anything for a newbie that wants to help keep the art alive. Most forums would have 'stickies' or a wiki on the basics. I have seen many beginner posts on this forum that seem lost. The search function isn't necessarily always the solution, but I do appreciate the reply very much.

After searching on Google, I did find a few projects. They aren't very extensive instructionals, but it's a start. It isn't enough to really wrap my head around, but enough to start with experimenting. I tried to post links to what I have found to this fourm, but it wouldn't let me 'post too many links'. So I created a blog to share them:
http://lathedigger.blogspot.com/2010/02/getting-started.html

Hopefully these links will help out other newbies. If anybody else has plans or info they could share, please do. Thanks!

[markrob]

Hi,

I don't have any plans and doubt you will find any. You can see what I did here:

http://home.comcast.net/~markrob1066/site/

Feel free to ask any questions you might have. You will need mechanical and electrical design and fabrication skills to get something running. What sort of background do you have?

The quality will be limited by how much time and effort you put into it. I got mine together by reading and experimentation. I've kinda dropped the lathe part in favor of a Presto 6N. But, building my lathe really helped me understand all of the prinicples. Lately, I've been concentrating on improving my stereo head design and looking into ways to make small runs of non-lacquer based records (Lexan and cast plastic). I'm also experimenting with embossing rather than cutting.

If you are looking to just cut, I'd look for a used Presto or Rek-o-Kut unit as a base to build on.

Mark

[potholeskinny]

Wow. Thanks Mark. This is great. I have a mechanical/musical background, I can fabricate to some extent and I'm handy with a soldering iron, so I feel I can definetly be able to build one once I nail down the plans. I was also thinking about using a ball bearing drawer slide. I've been struggling with how to have the head move (hand crank or motor). I think I'm going to try to build a hand cranked cutting head mover. I really like your cutting head you built. It looks like it works well. It looks a bit advanced in design for me.

I'm going to give it a shot in the coming weeks and if it works, I will post how I did it.

In the meantime, I'm hoping to get a recordette. Maybe not as advanced as a Presto 6N (which are hard to find huh?). I did see this Rek-o-Kut on ebay, but not sure if it works and what the repair costs would be. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=160403573016 Do you think this would get a good cut? In the end, I do want to cut records for my band (small runs with special packaging).

[markrob]

Hi,

I'd go with a motor driven head advance. It doesn't take much extra work to add it and you will not have to manage hand cranking while cutting. You'll get a much more even and controllable groove pitch. Plus, you have other stuff to keep you busy while cutting. You might want to download the Oliver Read book The Recording and Reproduction of Sound and The Radiotron Designer's Handbook, Fourth Edition from this web source:

http://www.pmillett.com/technical_books_online.htm

Also, take a look at some of the jpg scans of some useful info on head design in photo section of my web page. Keep reading here as there is wealth of info waiting if you take the time to dive in. Once you get the basic idea, just go for it. Even if you fail, you'll learn alot in the process.

As far as the link you provided, it could be a good starting point. Keep in mind that this is probably 78 RPM only and runs with a coarse groove pitch. It will need a complete mechanical and electrical restoration, followed by modification to make it do what you intend. Its probably not worth too much more that the starting bid price of $199.

Mark

[filtersweeper]

You can see what I did here:

http://home.comcast.net/~markrob1066/site/

Best link so far regarding DIY. I have not seen anything else that comes close. I would love to hear something sometime though...

[filtersweeper]

I'm slowly coming up with a list of standard products which can be easily integrated together to make up a lathe.
Tableslide (linear ball screw feed) : http://www.linearmotion.skf.com/upload/img274-274bc/LZAB_LZBB.jpg

DC stepper motor (to power ball screw) : http://www.epanorama.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/a-small-stepper-motor.jpg

Something torquier for driving the platter, since the platter should be heavy to help maintain steady RPM. Big stepper motor. The frame structure could be put together with blanchard ground aluminum plates, cut into appropriate shapes and machined to suit. http://larkinprecision.com/images/al%20plate.gif
Cutting head support (which simply bolts to the linear ball screw feed assy) would be machined out of a block of aluminum. Pieces might be anodized or powdercoated to finish. It's all in my head. I can see it.

[potholeskinny]

Hi,

Also, take a look at some of the jpg scans of some useful info on head design in photo section of my web page. Keep reading here as there is wealth of info waiting if you take the time to dive in. Once you get the basic idea, just go for it. Even if you fail, you'll learn alot in the process.

Mark

Mark, This is great! I put together a .pdf file of your scans. You can get it here: http://download114.mediafire.com/kxjjiy7ynt0g/d00djt34zjm/ArnoldSugden_and_Other.pdf

Thanks for all of the tips! I also added your project to the blog I started.

[markrob]

Hi potholeskinny and Filtersweeper,

I glad you are able to get some ideas from the info I posted. I'd also recommend the two volume JAES reprint set on disk recording.

http://www.aes.org/publications/anthologies/

Well worth the price.

I'm not sure a stepper would be good for the turntable drive. I think that even if microstepping, it would be too jerky. I'd look at brushless DC or AC induction motors. I think a stepper, if properly sized would work well for the lead screw drive.

Mark

[piaptk]

Mark, you never cease to amaze me... that homemade lathe is awesome!

Potholeskinny: my friend just made a homemade cutter roughly using the youtube videos here:

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=youtube+how+to+make+a+record+lathe&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=ETeHS9H0COGC8QbbuIHCDw&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CA0QqwQwAA#

He used this as a starting point and after asking me a ton of questions, has it dialed in pretty well. It still sounds pretty mediocre, but it plays, you can hear it, and it cost him $4 to make!

The search function here doesn't work very well, but a friend and I are going to work on putting a wiki together. I'm a newbie as well, but I'm really getting the hang of it now. Your best bet is to spend some hours (I probably spent close to 30) just scrolling through this site. The amount of information is ridiculous, and a lot of the same info is found in multiple post. Search "newbie" as well, and you will find a bunch of good starting places.

Good luck! (and hope you have some deep pockets and a fat wallet... this hobby isn't cheap once you get obsessed with it! ha!)

[fusionkid]

Here is a link to a company website with an online tutorial on magnetics/ motors/ voice coil motors etc.
Useful knowledgebase for constructing your own cutting head
http://www.consult-g2.com/ Click "Course"
There is also an interesting library of published papers

[opcode66]

It has been suggested a few times that a high pole DC motor from a washing machine could be used to drive a heavy platter with high torque and accuracy. A custom control circuit would likely need to be made.

The other thing to mention would be depth control for you suspension box.

[fusionkid]

I've been looking at small vertical slides from a mini lathe for use as cutter depth control you can buy for about £40 and it gives control down to 0.001"

It's basically how the neumans and scullys are made, if you've got a heavy enough lathe, it's a cheap, effective solution.

[opcode66]

Was refering to the suspension box and the depth control provided by it.

[fusionkid]

opcode66: Was refering to the suspension box and the depth control provided by it.

What exactly is "the suspension box?" my MSS lathe certainly doesn't have one, but i've been looking at cutter suspension methods like the Neumann AM31 basically a spring suspended linkage with a damper (dashpot). This is another element of lathe design i am yet to tackle, but i don't see any problems.
On my lathe, the arm that the cutter is mounted on has an up down adjustment to adjust depth of cut, the cutter mounting is simply a counterbalanced pivoting arrangement on the base of the cutter
Can you explain/ link me to how this suspension box is arranged please. I've been using the search function to find threads on "Suspension" the results you get don't relate to the search term at all!

[opcode66]

On a VMS70/80 there is a box that the cutterhead attaches to. Yes, it has a spring and dashpot. But it also houses electronics that allow the lathe to vary the depth of cut electronically. This allows for things like deeper leed in and leed out grooves. It also lets you do automatic head drops. Further, on the suspension box is a knob that lets you change the angle the head is at in relation to the disc. Adjusting the height of the box, the depth of cut and the angle altogether allow you to get exactly the groove you want cut cleanly and with the groove walls looking great. This is all imperative for me since I do a lot of EDM cuts which tend to be very loud and need to be backtracked. If you don't get your groove dialed in it wont hold the playback needle or it will have background noise if not cut cleanly.

[fusionkid]

Interesting, thankyou I've been wondering about these things!
So the dashpot and spring arrangement allows for any warp to the disc?
How is the mechanism driven? motor/gears? would there be any pics available? I'm putting thought into these problems for my own lathe project, and i just thought, i could just get a CNC motor to fit that lathe slide pictured earlier. Mmmm i wonder. I need to get my old MSS lathe in regular use so can get more experience, is anyone cutting plastic blanks in the UK?

[JayDC]

u wanna try servo's not motors to adjust for pitch depth.. servos are far better at controlling pivoting objects.. a high torque servo for a radio controlled airplane would be perfect..

[subkontrabob]

Interesting, thankyou I've been wondering about these things!
So the dashpot and spring arrangement allows for any warp to the disc?

It can compensate a little bit of it. I posted some pics of the dashpot/spring assembly in my AM31 thread over here:

https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1805&highlight=&mforum=lathetrolls

hope this helps.