Caruso Cutterhead Discussion

[jtransition]

My apologies if at 4.5k gbp the head is a bit expensive for our Stateside brothers but if anyone in the US actually wants to make me an offer I am all ears.For anyone in europe the price only represents 20-30 12inch singles.
Re the condition of the head I will happily supply all the test data to any serious buyers.

call me crazy but i was talking to a guy named dominick at sony about the same kind of head he had for sale and he wanted over $6K for it as well.

in this day and age, why are people asking so damn much for these things? i know the initial investment of purchasing these wasn't cheap and i'm not asking people to sell them for $20 or something ridiculous but i'm sure a LOT of guys on these forums would love to have one of these heads but there's absolutely no way they can afford them. plus if they need rewound or there's a problem and they need fixed, that's even more money people like me couldn't afford if they wanted to. that's why i'm so excited for flo's caruso head. it does the trick and doesn't cost you a 1/4 a years pay to get one.

i guess i'm just confused - i know the heads are amazing and all but there's not a lot of guys who are cutting records compared to years past and even more guys who can't afford the price of these heads. it's a piece of audio equipment - not a vehicle.

Your perspective on life is quite funny.

[jtransition]

The listing said you could do a bank transfer. Those are only about $25. That would be cheaper than .05% on $7k = $350 in paypal fees.

I would buy it if I had the extra coin. It is sort of a gamble though. The listing says it was checked out by Sean Davies. But, that is still a certain amount of trust. And, even if it works now, if it hasn't been restored or at least opened and inspected there is no gaurantee how long it will function well for. Who knows, the feedback coil might be haning on by a thread...

Restoring this head costs $6k. So, $7k plus potentially $6k is pricey. I would rather see a non-restored head go for something like $4k.

As stated by Nickou you can get a fully restored system for $30k. That includes a restored head. Not a head that is a gamble.

You are clearly not aware of what is actually involved in a head test.

[opcode66]

No you're right... Good luck selling your head friend.

[TotalSonic]

To the best of my knowledge J is legitimate - and if he is in fact saying the head is in good shape and has been verified by Sean Davies then I do in fact think people can bid with confidence.

Regarding pricing for rare vintage pro audio items - the pricing has always been set by "what the market will bear" - with considerations for recent sales history pricing, and how many similar items are on the market currently. For some sellers the amount of cash they themselves put in to initially purchase it along with any additional cash spent on reconditioning and repair will come in as a factor setting price as well. The urgency which the seller needs cash also can be a large factor in pricing - as if there is no urgency then they can simply wait for whenever they can get their desired price - but if there is urgency then they might need to sell below previous market prices.

SO - if he can get what he is asking despite the price seeming high to some who simply desire to pay less for the cutterhead then I'd say his pricing has been in fact set correctly. If he gets no offers then I'd say it's likely he will lower his pricing.

Important to note that afaik Al Grundy just has a couple complete systems right now and is not selling cutterheads separately.

Regarding the head that was on sale from Sony Mastering/Battery Studios here in NYC - from photos its casing looked to be in way worse shape than the head that J is selling here.

Anyway - I don't see why folks should get mad at J for just putting the pricing at a level he wants to.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[dietrich10]

I know I will kick myself this time next year not finding $ to pry this out of J's hand

[TotalSonic]

I know I will kick myself this time next year not finding $ to pry this out of J's hand

Exactly - back up cutter head = no interruptions to the cutting schedule (at least unless Murphy's law really kicks in super hard!). It used to be standard for every mastering studio to have at least one backup head - it's just super hard to afford one these days considering that most studios are now independently run and not able to charge as high of rates at the same level of volume as they did in the past.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[dietrich10]

I plan to purchase 2nd system in 8-14 months from a friend complete with the sx74

D

[TotalSonic]

I plan to purchase 2nd system in 8-14 months from a friend complete with the sx74

D

Damn Dietrich! Sounds like the plan is to build yourself a recreation of a late 70's era room at Sterling (which used to have 2 or 3 lathes in each room then). Cool stuff if you can expand to that level!

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[mossboss]

Jason Is a good man
He would stick by his comments No doubt about that
I had a jibe thats all Just a bit of fun really
Now
It has been the case that the market always determines a price for anything thats put up for sale
It has a mind of its own That's for sure
We all know things that go for a low price and things that sell at a high price
It's a case of who when where how as well as a lot of unknown factors
Weather it is cheap or expensive its not really the issue
To me its a case of affordability
The luxury of having one on the selves is also a consideration
Besides it would also have to be the case of what one is going to get out of it f he is cutting for a living
There is not one lathe that I am aware of that is sitting idle due to a lack of a head if the owner is making a living out of it That is a fact
Now if any one wants a spare head well Thats really the point isnt it?
A new head from Neumann back in those days was around the $45,000
By comparison this is than a bargain
I do remember 3 of them up for sale in NY some 3 years ago One brand new One Neumann refurbished and another used at around the $ 25-30K
for the new one $20 odd K for the refurb one somewhat less for the used one
Not aware of what happened to them either But they where up on Ebay at these or there about's prices
I can also tell you this more than one VMS or Scully where given away for the taking just to clear out the studio
On the other hand there is a complete VMS available ex Germany up and running for 20K euros including a head
It has been around for about a year or more
So here we are in a discussion of what one should pay or not if's whats why's but's and all of that
The point is
The market always determines the price of any item at a particular point in time
More so in a place like ebay which is reached by a vast number of people world wide
No way any one anywhere would have such a wide reach of potential buyers as there are on this ebay thing
And the market has spoken on this
I am afraid the facts will always remain
I would have put it under classifieds with a fixed price and open to offers rather than an auction that starts at 99p
The conditions attached such as a fixed price does not warrant an auction thats for sure
Dont quite make sense to me as the listing does not even have make an offer option
J can set the reserve at 10K pounds and see what the market is willing to pay
At least he would atract some bids so he could negotiate with potential buyers later on if he chooses to do so
Not that hard really
Off my soap box on ebay techniques and the prices of 40 odd year old gear
Cheers

[JayDC]

I can also vouch for j @ transition.. They cut a ton of records over there, and I am sure he wouldn't try to sell junk..

I dunno how much a head like this should be valued at, i think these things are really about how much the person who buys it values it. Something like this for the right outfit could be invaluable in the correct situation.

For those that think the price is high i suppose you can get a new sc-99, wait for a caruso, or hit up len horowitz and see if he can source you a westrex 3d.

[ak23]

here is a pic:

http://www.myspace.com/schnittstelle_mastering

this is a version of the pre-version with cooling from outside.
Picture is about 3 years old.

[Aussie0zborn]

Thank you for he update. Do you have a more recent photo and technical information? As you can imagine, the more information we have about these things the better!

[JuanPabloCuervo]

http://www.etec.dk/ortofon-vintage.html
interesting...

is the sx-74 sold?

[ak23]

hello Aussie,

how are you ?

As i am not selling these heads and do not want to get involed
in any discussions here I would ask Sean W. Davies as he usually have a test head and can tell more about specs etc.

Regarding pictures. If i find time i will post one on my homepage in
the future.

All I can say is that i am running this head since the first prototype version and the final product since over 2 years without any problems.
I am very happy and know that the people who tested it wanted it
but not every studio can afford it or invest the money because of
the business situation.

So for serious interest buying this head i would get in touch
with SWD or Dr.Corinth (phone/fax no email).

greetings

Andreas

[jtransition]

Cough Cough,
Still for sale.
Regards
Jason

[Dub Studio]

Excuse my ignorance but surely there must be a better way of defining the characteristics of the standard cutting head and using that as a way to gauge how good a particular head is in comparison?

Interesting as it is, there doesn't seem much point comparing the merits of modern materials versus old, or one company versus another, or who is involved in making the head and what their CV is, when really its the sound of the head that matters.

I gather the excursion is one important factor of a head's performance, but what other factors are there to consider apart from the obvious "it just sounds good". Is it even possible to measure how good a head is using a purely empirical method. If so, what would that method be?

[mossboss]

Buy lots of heads if you got the cash which would suit your cutting lathe
If you dont have one of them Buy one as well
Gets lots of lacquers and start cutting the same tracks on the same setting on all of the heads you have
Than pay for metal work and test pressing from a good pressing shop and start comparing on your T/T
Thats empirical I do not know of any other way man
The ear never fails
Thats for sure
Its no different than power amp specs or speakers in any audio shop which is bullshit any way
They play a cd or a record, switch from speaker a to b to c and so on just like the amps this one that one or the other
Any amount of combinations
Never mind what the sound on the medium was is what the customer likes
WTF
Off my soap box now
Cheers

[Dub Studio]

Thats empirical I do not know of any other way man

By empirical I mean collecting data. Obviously the ear is the final judge, but without data how do you know what needs improving, and by how much?

[mossboss]

I have always have thought Empirical means the following in the English laungauge
Here is its definition

em·pir·i·cal
   [em-pir-i-kuhl]
adjective
1.
derived from or guided by experience or experiment.
2.
depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, especially as in medicine.
3.
provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.
Ok Now
So you go collecting data and than it becomes
1, 2. practical, firsthand, pragmatic.

Antonyms
1, 2. secondhand, theoretical.

So yo already have the second hand just by reading here there and everywhere
Of course you may collect as much data as you wish it will than still remain as theoretical my friend
So be an empirist
Cheers
Had to do that

[concretecowboy71]

Empirical or not, the fact remains that this is a product that does not exist right now and no matter how affordable it might be, for guys that cut everyday to make their living, this head currently has no value because we cannot use it, no matter how good.

What is great however is that when this product is actually for sale, there is a great community of users here that will be able to supply the kind of information "empirical" or not that will allow others to make a decision based on first hand knowledge of the product.

We are lucky to have users at all levels of cutting from experimental hobby cutters to life-long professional cutters that will be able to determine if this head can cut "pro" masters using hard data and their ears.

I would gladly shell out the asking price for one of these if it does the job, but until then I have to keep saving for another head that I know I can really put my hands on.