NEED LATHE CUT RECORDS MADE

[REBELSOUND]

OK guys and gals this is the deal. I have contacted numerous places of business here in the United States to get some lathe cut records made and NO ONE in three weeks has responded to ANY of my emails. I have even sent emails to the same businesses from different accounts. No avail, NO ONE wants to do business. Is there anyone out there that can cut lathe records for me?

[Angus McCarthy]

There certainly are folks on here who do short-run lathe cuts. You might get a better response posting this in the Classifieds section, though.

[mossboss]

Firstly welcome
Look do not wonder why all these people are refusing to quote
There is no financial reward in doing lathe cuts
Just about every one that has had a crack at them gives up
Its just not a proposition for the little money people want to pay for the job Its a bad thing that some people started doing them at very low prices a little while back without really knowing what it takes
They more or less established a benchmark or a price so people want to pay that or even less than that
Not hard to see why people will not do them
My best advise is to get on to Peter King in New Zealand
He has it down fine pat he can do the Job at a fair price as he does 5 at the time so it works out OK all round
Cheers

[REBELSOUND]

thanks for the encouragement! lol! well, if they aren't making money at it and are not willing to respond to emails (just a simple "f off" would suffice) then they should take their website down. Even buying a lathe is difficult, no one wants to respond, I've been at this for almost half a year now. Makes me just want to throw all in and purchase a vinyl recorder and have a go at it myself. Kinda typical in this economy, service went down and prices went up.

[Angus McCarthy]

Economy aside there has been ...drama recently in the lathe-cut scene - much of it played out on these forums, actually - so I'm honestly not surprised some people are laying low at this point.

But yes, for a consistent and reliable product, Peter King is certainly the name that comes to mind first.

[REBELSOUND]

drama in the lathe world??? Oh no, a small 'scene' of people involved in the same pastime? drama involved? Oh you can't be serious!?! lol!

[mossboss]

Hey Man
They all Rebelled
Cheers

[REBELSOUND]

LOL!!!! I have received some good emails out of my tongue in cheek posts so I think I can actually get some records cut at this point. Thanks everyone! Just on a side note, is that guy from Poly-Cut alive???

[MEGAMIKE]

denial is not a river in africa ..
there are plenty of lathe cutters(polydub) out there they just dont post here for obvious reasons..

also ask if they cut with diamond and do ask if its stereo

[opcode66]

Even buying a lathe is difficult, no one wants to respond, I've been at this for almost half a year now.

I was inspired to cut records. I researched lathes and cutting for a full year before tracking down mine. It took close to a year for my lathe to be fully restored. So, nearly two years passed before I was on my way to pickup my lathe. Just to give you some perspective.

Makes me just want to throw all in and purchase a vinyl recorder and have a go at it myself.

In the end, I decided against the VR. But, if that works for you, then go for it! The best way to get something done right is to do it yourself! I've always lived by that.

And, once you start cutting, you'll quickly realize just how much work it is to make 20 or 30 or 50 of the same record individually. I think label owners have the perception that what we do is highly automated. Like we load a stack of discs into a machine, load a wave file, and hit the Cut button and out comes copies like a printer or something.

It takes as long as the program material to cut a side. So, if it is two tracks at 15 minutes it takes 15 minutes to cut that side. But, that's just the cutting. There is prep work before cutting. So, if you have 10 to 15 minutes per side, that is 20 to 30 minutes of cut time. Plus prep work on both sides. That can amount to nearly 45 minutes or more just to cut one disc. With the very high price of both blanks (near $10 per 12") and diamond cutting stylus ($350) you are making basically nothing. No one wants to pay for this service. As a cutter you are lucky if you can negotiate $15 to $20 per disc. After your materials costs and putting something away for the wear on your lathe (for later repairs that will be needed) you are making less than minimum wage or nothing or you are actually paying money.

What, did I say that records cutters sometimes go out of pocket? Yep. If you have comitted to a job that has such low profit margins and something goes wrong then for sure you are paying for it... Let say, for whatever reason, you mess up on 3 discs out of 20. That is $40 to $50 worth of polycarb and wear on the stylus. That might be half of the profit you were planning to make... Screw up enough and all your profit evaporates. And, you have now done all this work for free. If it takes almost 45 minutes to cut a 30 minutes of audio to two sides and you are making 30 copies that is 22 hours of work. That is a part time job. And, if you are making maybe $5/hour on that job or potentially nothing with errors then who in their right mind would jump at that?

Cutting one off plastic discs professionally is tough to do and make a profit. You have to go the lofi route to really make a buck. That would be embossing instead of cutting. That would be using old mono lathes with limited frequency range (highs capped at about 10K or lower). That would be using things like picnic plates instead of CNC cut polycarbonate discs.

You absolutely get what you pay for. If you want a professionally cut polycarbonate disc in stereo with full frequency range, high volume and little to no background noise then expect to pay $50 per copy. Or, buy a VR and do it yourself.

I will be offering lathe cuts again soon. But only individual dubs. And the will cost the same amount as an acetate dub cut. $50.

[drdub]

Cutting one off plastic discs professionally is tough to do and make a profit.

youre right on this one !
were doing masters plus one offs and the dub cut service only works because:

- we try to cut as efficent as possible
- we do it on a dayly basis
- we charge a fair price for it
- we love doing it

there just is no way to do this as a hobby and cover more than actual cost. i do not even answer mails from people who complain about prices...

mex

[petermontg]

Most of us here started out cutting on mono system and graduated onto bigger stereo systems. Am just trying to sort things out for a Scully to bring here at the moment.

Do 3 year business plan may take a couple of weeks so sort through but its the best advice if your looking to compete in the industry. See what your over heads are and where your loss/profits are going to be. It's an eye opener but its the best advice.

Even if it's a hobby, do it.

[dietrich10]

I sold my RCA which was planned for lathe cuts because of the stylus confusion and pricing on my end. I will revisit it soon and find something smaller than the RCA system and offer lathe cuts by years end

D

[piaptk]

My experience was identical to opcodes. It took me forever to finally find a 6n after years of buying broken lathes on ebay and tinkering with a WestTech restored suitcase cutter.

Then, I was idealistic and excited, and decided I'd start cutting for other people, using Peter Kings model. I bought 3 more 6ns, started taking orders, and quickly realized that keeping 4 lathes running at once was impossible and ulcer-inducing. I lost money and wasted a ton of time cutting records for harsh noise and hardcore bands that I couldn't stand listening to once, much less 50 times. And, I had too many people wanting 20 records for the same quality and price per piece as if they had bought 500 from a pressing plant. It cemented my impression that musicians *can* be a bunch of deluded, spoiled brats.

The bloom was off the rose, I sold three of my lathes, and went back to just cutting music I liked for my own label. I'm fine with losing money for that. Don't want to do it for someone else. All of the other inexpensive lathe cutters came to similar conclusions.

Have you tried Corporaterecords.biz? Last I heard, Adam was still doing runs.

[MEGAMIKE]

4 lathes runing .my god.
and you did not have fun ?made no money ???

please.

[ArchaicRecords]

I've been trying to get a working lathe cutter for 30 years! I've got one finished but now I have run out funds to pay the repair charge! After 30 years, I have yet to cut one record and have not even seen a working cutter cutting a record, in person. (Yes, I am stuck in BFE, in the middle of rural U.S.)

[ArchaicRecords]

Incidentally, I have learned that Peter King has gotten the costs of production way down using these methods:
He makes his own cutting stylii out of cheap steel gramophone playback stylii - which can be found for, like, 2-cents each, using his own grinding machines to grind the stylus before cutting.
He has figured out how to cut, by embossing, into polycarbonate discs using these cheap steel stylii instead of diamond or sapphire stylii. He has figured out a heating method to make it all work.
He has his own equipment to cut polycarbonate material into the shape of phonograph discs.
Those are the secrets for getting the price way down to something affordable, and is why he is the King of lathe cutting.

[fraggle]

compare a dub plate cut by dr. dub and one from peter king.
it's like comparing a vw with a porsch.
i don't mean that in an offensive way or anything.

[opcode66]

Incidentally, I have learned that Peter King has gotten the costs of production way down using these methods:
He makes his own cutting stylii out of cheap steel gramophone playback stylii - which can be found for, like, 2-cents each, using his own grinding machines to grind the stylus before cutting.

I'm sure the groove walls are not really clean. There will be background noise when cutting with a stylus like that.

He has figured out how to cut, by embossing

Nope. You can not cut by embossing. You can emboss by embossing. Making an impressing in something is very different from actually removing material. Again, you will have more background noise.

Those are the secrets for getting the price way down to something affordable, and is why he is the King of lathe cutting.

Something affordable is not the same as something I would actually want to play... As Fraggle accurately stated. Get a dub from Dr. Dub. Or from any of the other serious cutters here. Then get one from Mr. King and compare. They are what they are. You get what you pay for.

[DJ ALX]

I had a dub cut by dr dub (Mex) and the resaults were more than fine.

My client's audio was hard limited WAY too much (even for CD listeners), levels stuck to -4fb to -3db average, and we wanted to press a run on vinyl so we asked for a dub cut on the vms to see if its worth it.
Sound was very fair considering what we have sent. All the digital harshness of the highs were GONE and bass still had an impact!

Dont ask about the material we sent. The producer in charge mixed the whole record on a demo cubase and could not save and he put mastering EQs and limiters on his master track and exported without saving. Nightmare...

Maybe I can do a audio/video comparing the two waveforms. The original wav files and the ones from the dub plate. If I get permission by the artist I will do that and post resaults.


PS: Mex, I never got back to you for that run cos my client didnt want to go through with it. Looking to work together in the future though.