Leaning back

[aussie cutter]

Hi all,

Today i conducted a series of test cuts and adjustments to my lathe and have found finally found the sweet spot... "YAY! "

While testing out vinyl plotter blades i managed to get a super deep and quiet cut (emboss style)

See "Vinyl plotter blades - anyone tried"
https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=3164&mforum=lathetrolls



After a number of tests with the plotters i switched back to a pretty much burnt out saphire and used similar methods i used on the plotters

Playing around with the weight as well as tilting the cutter back and forth - i found that i got a better and better cut the further back i tilted so...

I took apart the lathe & shaved a section of bottom of the under carraige arm so it could ride lower to the blank surface allowing me to tilt back the cutter head further to 65deg - with a nearly burnt out needle as well as not heating up the stylus or poly - the cut was almost completly crystal clear and tracked well - to date this is the best cut i have achieved and i am now just itching to break out a new styli and turn up the heat, the results should be amazing...

I'll keep you all posted...

[piaptk]

Are you using the stylus forward fcing (traditional) or backwards?

[aussie cutter]

Of late i have been embossing - been getting better results than cutting the thread even when using a cacked styli - My best results to date embossing with a 65deg lean (with no heat applied)

I really can't wait to break out a new saphire and turn up the heat - given the results i got yesterday...

I've also recently designed an advance ball type of system for my lathe - once the parts i ordered have arrived and i've assebled fitted + tested it, i will be posting results and photos...

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8015/7252252828_3c6d324cb8_z.jpg

[piaptk]

You will probably get worse results with a good styli. I tried the backward styli trick a year or two ago with a good styli and had no luck. But i recently had a conversation with Steve E about cutting poly and decided to give it another go. This time i used a stylus that wasnt visibly chipped under a scope, but that was hissy on lacquers (probably had a rounded tip or toasted polishing facets) and it worked great. Every stylus ive tried that fit that description has worked. Tried a sharp stylus and the sound sucked.

[aussie cutter]

Thanks for the heads up regarding that - Will keep an eye out for it

Either way i look at it i can't go too wrong having 2 ways to cut

I can go about it - Sitting up and facing forward with a fresh tip then once its beat up a bit, i can turn it around and start leaning back

I've got a diamond tip here (an old capps i think) I just have to work out a way to make an adapter for it to fit on the 1-c

Is there anybody out there doing diamonds for prestos

[piaptk]

What makes you think it is a diamond? I dont think Capps ever made diamonds, only clear sapphires that people mistake for diamonds all the time. The only diamonds made back in the day were DMM styli. Vinylium and souri make diamonds now with the really tiny shank, but you would probably know that it came from them because it would have been purchased relatively recently. It is highly doubtful that you have a nos diamond.

The Shank on here was making diamonds, but not sure of he still is. I dont think people had much luck with them lastng very long. At least i didnt.

[aussie cutter]

My assumption was that it was a diamond - Clear stone, didn't realise that there were clear saphs made - I am only familiar with steel, ruby/saphire and diamond...

It is an old capps styli - had 5 originally - sold 4 with the original cardboard packaging to a guy in sydney with an old cutterhead (they are tiny compared to a transco 462) atm i'm looking into making an adapter for it to fit on the presto 1-c... I was thinking about using a leather strap pin something like this...

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FT04-06-NEW-WATCH-LEATHER-STRAP-PINS-ASSORTMEN-200-pcs-/110887509056?pt=UK_Jewellery_Watches_WatchAccessories_SpareParts_SM&hash=item19d1691c40

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/PINS-STRAP-BRACELET-LINKS-X100-10-sizes-0-8mm-1-8mm-adding-removing-links-/200746069405?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8775715608371342314

[piaptk]

Nope... Definitely not a diamond then... Simon on the board made me an adapter once out if a screw...

[tragwag]

i'm curious about the angle.
does that allow you to cut deeper?
I've been embossing lexan with just a backwards stylus and no significant angle. With a Capps stylus, it works fine. With an adapter and used Neumann stylus it does not. Do you think the angle would change that?
What advantages do your vinyl plotter blades have?
thanks!

[aussie cutter]

"Please bear in mind that I have limited experience and knowledge of lathes compared to some"

"Here in Oz, cutting is almost non existant and i don't have anybody here to guide me"

I built my lathe from the ground up and don't have any experience on any other lathe - my education comes from reading books about cutting, talking to members like markrob & piaptk as well as a fair bir of experimenting and testing...

To my understanding - there are a few different designs in styli and the ability to change the degree of the cutterhead - accomidates for the differing styli

Depth isn't really affected by angle - it is affected by weight, however the width of the cut could be affected by changing the angle

As for the plotter blades - I havn't done any further testing with blades yet - but what i can tell you is...

I you can get or build a turntable like a technics sp-10 or better and you apply say about 300 grams of weight (which is about twice the amount of the average weight cutters use) and you lean the cutterhead back as far back as you can to limit the amount of drag created and prevent the plotter blade from cutting right through the blank...

"It could be possible for you to cut a super deep, reasonable sounding record"

"I must stess again that i have limited experience and knowledge of lathes compared to some - I've been a DJ for 10 years and I believe that i have a reasonable ear, But what sounds reasonable to me may sound great to some & utterly crap to others...

[emidisc]

one thing to bear in mind is that when using a standard cutting stylus it is designed to cut at an angle of 90 degrees to surface of disc thus cutting a groove with an included angle of 90 degrees.
If the cutter head is tilted back you will then be increasing the angle of groove above 90 degrees and I would have thought decreasing trackability of playback.
So to maintain the 90 degrees groove you need a modified stylus with facets of in the region of 70 degrees when the head is tilted at approx 45 degrees.
I have embossed on lexan with the head tilted less than 10 degree and with the steel stylus facing in the normal cutting direction with pretty good results trackability always appears to be the only issue.
Emidisc

[aussie cutter]

I had tracking issues when i first started trialing different degrees - I soon realised that when i adjust the degree of the cutter, i had to also adjust the weight of the cutter...

Simply put - when the degree of the cutter is changed - it also changes the amount of direct downward weight being applied from the cutterhead as well as the amount of drag that the cutterhead creates when applied...

10 degrees may not seem much and many people out there would think that there wouldn't be any difference in these factors, but trust me there is...

This is the basic rule i follow - It's hardly super technical, but it works for me...

When i fit a styli &/or adjust the degree of the cutterhead - I find the styli's sweet spot by using the basic silent test cut method...

Once i have found the sweet spot, I adjust the weight being applied by the cutterhead - I add more weight until i begin to hear the noise that is caused when a cut is getting too deep, then i adjust the weight back until the noise is gone...

From there i am up and running... Easy Peasy!

[tragwag]

thank you for explaining, I think I understand!
at the very least, I always do the silent test, I've come to know when a material/stylus/depth setting/heat setting, etc
will work well or not pretty much when I drop the head.

We've got some plotter blades on the way to try out, just to see!
Maybe messing around with the angle will help.
I'll report my findings

[piaptk]

I use three times the weight for Embossing at 15 degree tilt that I do for Cutting at a 2 degree tilt.

I'm sure everyone knows this, but room heat is another key. It's 105 degrees in my room right now and I'm getting great sound. Really want to go to bed, but I learned two things a long time ago with my fickle lady lathes:
1) Strike while the iron is hot.. when the lathes are running and sounding good don't stop until they aren't.
2) If you can't get them to sound right in 20 minutes of trying, find something better to do with your day and come back tomorrow.

oh and 3) (sidenote) if you agree to cut records for friends at deeply discounted rates, make sure you put a limit...cutting 100 records of the same tune is a lot, even for a band you like!

[tragwag]

ill have to second that whole post.
I've had great days where I do runs of 20 or 30 records a day, then some days I can't get the noise to go away.
as a recording engineer who has cut records of things I recorded and mixed, don't accept orders for more than 50. ughhh

[marchingband]

anyone experience jagged edges in their groves using this leaning back technique?
I am using a backwards capps stylus on Lexan, and the edges of the groves become a zigzag basically as soon as any significant signal is being cut ... ?

[tragwag]

anyone experience jagged edges in their groves using this leaning back technique?
I am using a backwards capps stylus on Lexan, and the edges of the groves become a zigzag basically as soon as any significant signal is being cut ... ?

my microscope doesn't magnify that much, but I would say that because of the different stylus geometry for embossing/impressing, it would cause odd looking grooves

[marchingband]

the ragged edge is very obvious, don't need a lot of magnification to see it. It is even causing enough drag on the playback stylus to slow the record! I'm not heating the Lexan, could this be a cause of jagged edges? anyone else experiencing this problem or know how to resolve it? The audio is there, and at a reasonable volume, but the high end (above about 6k) is obviously very poor sounding.

[marchingband]

Is this possibly what the use of Turtle Wax is meant to combat?

[marchingband]

heres a photo

<a href="http://s1180.beta.photobucket.com/user/craftsingles/media/jaggedgroves.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x410/craftsingles/jaggedgroves.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo jaggedgroves.jpg"/></a>