Vinyl Plotter Blade: Anyone tried?

[PyG]

Hi,
I have found vinyl plotter blades on ebay, and I thought the shape looks like a cutting stylus, so I have bought a box to check if it could be used to cut records.
I cannot test it right now, because my lathe is not finished yet, but I have taken some pictures to compare it to a "true" cutting stylus I have (on a RCA 11850 cutting head).

Here are the photos (Plotter blade is on top, cutting stylus on the bottom):



These blades can be found on ebay by searching "CB09 Roland Blades", and are pretty cheap: about 3-4$ each.


Do you think they can be used to cut (or emboss) records? Has anyone ever tried this? The tip seems thin and sharp enough, but I have no experience to tell.
Thanks for your advices.

[markrob]

Hi,

Interesting. Might have a shot. Give it a try. The one issue I see is that it looks like what would be the front edge of a standard cutting stylus is not ground flat. I'm guessing that the intended use is in the opposite direction to a cutting stylus. It might work as an embosser. Try it in both directions and as a cutter and embosser. Let us know how it works. The other issue is that the tip angle is very steep. Should be closer to 90 degrees.

Mark

[andybee]

if you look at the front of the stylus, you see, the angle
is not 90degrees, I don´t think, that works...
maybe if you have a cutting head with that angle....
also the facets must be perfect....
maybe good for lofi ?

[Angus McCarthy]

Hi,

Interesting. Might have a shot. Give it a try. The one issue I see is that it looks like what would be the front edge of a standard cutting stylus is not ground flat. I'm guessing that the intended use is in the opposite direction to a cutting stylus. It might work as an embosser. Try it in both directions and as a cutter and embosser. Let us know how it works. The other issue is that the tip angle is very steep. Should be closer to 90 degrees.

Mark

Depending on how long the shank is you may be able to bend one of these to the proper angle for embossing.

[PyG]

Thanks for your answers.
I have made quick tests of this needle, but keep in mind that my lathe is 100% diy, and not completely finished yet, so the issues can come from the needle, but also from a lot of other reasons (diy cutterhead, torque issue, ...).

Cutting test:
Forget about using this needle for cutting. This blade is originaly made to cut through thin sheets of vinyl, so when you try cutting a groove, the blade digs in the record, removing a lot of chip, and with a lot of noise. I couldn't hear any music on playback.

Embossing test:
Much better this time! Still very lofi, but at least, I have a sound. I tested different angles to reduce surface noise, but I did not find the perfect setting. Once again, it can come from the material I emboss (PVC sheets) and of course from the cutterhead. I did not heat the blank or the needle.
I tried with my 2 diy cutterhead:
- mono cutterhead: good bass, but poor high freqs
- stereo cutterhead: almost no bass, quite good high freqs
With a good cutterhead, this needle could be ok.

I just bought a rca mi 11850 cutterhead, but I have not tried this needle on it.
Maybe this needle will be better on a true cutterhead with heating.

I will keep you updated of my further experiences!

[aussie cutter]

PYG wrote :

I just bought a rca mi 11850 cutterhead, but I have not tried this needle on it.
Maybe this needle will be better on a true cutterhead with heating.
I will keep you updated of my further experiences!

I've just ordered a set of 60 degree mimaki blades off ebay for testing!

MIMAKI series plotter blades
Technical data in the overview:
- Cutting media up to 0.25mm thick
- Diameter: 1.5mm (0.08")/Length: 20mm (0.91")
- Available in 30, 45 and 60 degree, 0.25mm offset
- Material: 89-90%Wc/10-11%Co
- Hardens: 91, 5HRA Rockwell
- Breaking Strength:4000-4200N/mm2
- 5 pcs per box

The diameter and length dimensions are almost exactly the same as a tranco/apollo 462 presto long shank stylus

When they arrive i will be emboss testing them with my presto 1-c, the results will be interesting to see...

As for Heating PYG it isn't a wise idea to rig up any form of heating on these needles as they are metal and if the shank isn't insulated inside the cutterhead chances are that the head will become live there will be a real chance of frying yourself on the lathe

I would suggest getting youself an infrared heat lamp to heat the discs,
These will provide you with more heat than a lightbulb

[aussie cutter]

Test results are in on vinyl plotter blades...

"Presto 6d - Stanton Str8-150 turntable - mimaki 60 deg vinyl plotter blade"

Cutting

Don't bother - no flat front and you'll just tear up your blank with a god awful screech...

Embossing -

[u]"This was a very interesting test and the results caused me to make some further mods and adjustments of my lathe wich has greatly improved my sound quality" [/u]

(See post - Leaning back)

For those who are looking for a substitute blade, the vinyl plotter could well take place as a substitute for a cutting needle embossing style - the vinyl plotter when set the same way as embossing with a cutting styli actually cut the material, now here are all the pro's and con's...

When using about the same weight as regular a cutting styli (about 100grams) alot of surface noise was present - the more i increased the weight, the quieter the surface noise became - Here's the biggy the amount of weight of which i had to increase to bring the surface noise down to nearly zero almost made my turntable stop completly (Stanton str8-150 / 5kg torque) which gave the deepest cut ever (So deep i think that my wife could file her nails across the grooves...)

I also began tilting my cutter back - the further i tilted the more it helped the torque issue - but still alot of weight had to be applied for a quiet cut

"If one had a super high torque turntable like a technics sp-10 and is capable of applying about 300grams plus - then it could be quite possible to cut a very deep and quiet track with this type of vinyl poltter"

I didn't test the plotter blades any further as i didn't want to stress out my turntable anymore and chew up a stack of blanks...

I do plan to test out the 45 deg range of mimakis in the near future - I had a look at an old bagshaws briliantone steel cutting styli i bought on ebay a while ago and possibly the 60 deg blades i just tested were a little to steep causing the blade to dig deeper than a 45 - "if i remember correctly this was stated on the mimaki website" maybe a blade that donsn't wanna dig in as much will be quieter and cause less torgue issues...

[uvoscillator]

I've try emboss with 45 Mimaki blade, and was disappointed, a lot of noise on any adjustments. But today I take a look at blade again,
and one weird idea was met me )) Hey guys, just try another end of blade, that sharped like cone. You will be surprised ! Very low
surface noise but not a lot high frequencies also. But god damn, it works very well with small pressure !

[L.K.R.A]

I have had similar experiences, results and ideas to uvoscillator... after realising a quieter cut with a spherical edge over a blade edge...

I have ordererd several products that i feel will have potential to give backyard cutters a new avenue for cheap, effective and durable recording (embossing) styli i will be testing tem out over the coming weeks and will post my results...

[uvoscillator]

Hey Neil ! Looking forward from you !
I guess, that something with not cone, but half-cone can produce hi frequencies better.
In any way material for plotter blades is very good, I can't last first one for now. May be we can make drawings and manufacture somewhere in China styli with right geometry?
BTW on 45RPM result a bit better.

[L.K.R.A]

Of late I've been experimenting with scriber tips used for etching metal - very similar to the tops of the vinyl plotter blades...



There are a few different ones available - some with burnishing edges too, but I've only tried out the simple spherical designs due to budget...

I did a few mods a while back which enables my presto 6D with 1C to emboss at about 30 degrees and I've got the cutter weight set to about 35 grams

like using the plotter blades I found that the further I tilted, the better the cut...

overall very good results and no tracking issues with my lathe set like this...

Look up "etching supplies" or "etching scribes" and you should be able to find a whole array of scribes - I'm lucky as I live near an etching supplier and I am able to pick them out in the shop...

My turntable has developed a buckle over time which is affecting the quality of my cuts so, I've put my cutting on hold and I am currently working on putting together a new turntable (but that's for another topic I've posted)

[chaosbc]

Maybe such diamond tips could work ? (the angle do not seem the best possible that said)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Circon-MTC-451-Diamond-Straight-Scribe-60-Angled-Cone-Tip-020-Diameter-/321119411913?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac4355ec9


http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Micro-Engraver-diamond-tipped-Tool-Wood-Metal-Ceramic-Scribe-/260929387278?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc09a7b0e

[L.K.R.A]

dont see why they wouldnt work @ 60 degrees your track will have steeper edges than a 45 degree. any doubters should at least try them out first... what do you have to loose - they only cost a couple bucks and the results are surprisingly good.

the photo of the scribe tip above was taken on my usb microscope at 40x zoom

[PyG]

Hi everyone!
I wanted to share my experience using this blade upside down, but I am not the only one who thought about this!
I also had good results using the conical tip, with low pressure, but I have some problems on playback: the stylus does not stay in the groove. When I increase pressure, it also increases noise. I have not found the sweet spot yet, but the sound is better cut after cut.
By the way, what material do you cut using these blades?
I am cutting on pvc sheets (flexi) but I am sure there is a better material.

[studiorp]

Makrolon ?