testing Jerry's steel cone styli
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- uvoscillator
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am
- Location: Russia, St.Petersburg
testing Jerry's steel cone styli
Hi there !
Just receive and done first testing Jerry's steel styli.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281196676466
I've take cone ones and try to emboss with them. With comparing to sapphire.
Anything was done as usual - WD-40 for lubricating, 60-70C heating with lamp.
Jerry's cone:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/saph_test.wav
Sapphire:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/steel_test.wav
I've experimented with steel before and Jerry's styli works very good for steel, but as you can see sapphire is out of competition.
Can't say how much they will last. This needs to do different research
Good luck !
Sergey
Just receive and done first testing Jerry's steel styli.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281196676466
I've take cone ones and try to emboss with them. With comparing to sapphire.
Anything was done as usual - WD-40 for lubricating, 60-70C heating with lamp.
Jerry's cone:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/saph_test.wav
Sapphire:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/steel_test.wav
I've experimented with steel before and Jerry's styli works very good for steel, but as you can see sapphire is out of competition.
Can't say how much they will last. This needs to do different research
Good luck !
Sergey
Best !
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
Hey Sergey,
Thanks for your response to my steel needles. I am constantly experimenting with my steel, and I continue to improve by making them smoother around the tip and the right cone angle all through. It sounds like you have had good results with my needles, but you seem to lean towards sapphire if I read your post correctly. I am sure sapphire costs more than my needles, and I have no idea how long they would last. I have a PR man, Mike, that is a Lathetroll member and I am always sending needles to him to test with his many lathes. Then he replies to me telling me the good and weak points. Eventually as we work together, hopefully we can zero in and eliminate some of any flaws that there may be.
Jerry
Thanks for your response to my steel needles. I am constantly experimenting with my steel, and I continue to improve by making them smoother around the tip and the right cone angle all through. It sounds like you have had good results with my needles, but you seem to lean towards sapphire if I read your post correctly. I am sure sapphire costs more than my needles, and I have no idea how long they would last. I have a PR man, Mike, that is a Lathetroll member and I am always sending needles to him to test with his many lathes. Then he replies to me telling me the good and weak points. Eventually as we work together, hopefully we can zero in and eliminate some of any flaws that there may be.
Jerry
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
About my needles. A member of Lathetrolls provided the following:
"Did he order the triangles? Sapphires do, and always will, blow anybody's steel needles out of the water. You aren't providing a substitute for $100 sapphires.. you are providing a LOW COST alternative for people to experiment with. You are a bicycle, Sapphires are a Mercedes... Not fair to compare yourself to something you aren't trying to be anyway."
"Did he order the triangles? Sapphires do, and always will, blow anybody's steel needles out of the water. You aren't providing a substitute for $100 sapphires.. you are providing a LOW COST alternative for people to experiment with. You are a bicycle, Sapphires are a Mercedes... Not fair to compare yourself to something you aren't trying to be anyway."
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
I wrote that, I thought he was using the steel triangles for CUTTING.
In theory, Jerry's cones should be comparable to a backwards styli. However, we have been doing a LOT of adjustments, and trying to find just the right cone. Some have been better than others. Not sure which batch you got, Sergei, but I'd be interested to know how the sound was... email me at lathecuts-AAAT-yahoooooo-dawt-cawm... Any feedback you can give us will help us dial this thing in! Jerry keeps pretty good notes about what he does to each batch, and I'm guessing what batch he sends everyone, so if there is a problem with yours, we will know which batch, what he did, and we can fix it.
In theory, Jerry's cones should be comparable to a backwards styli. However, we have been doing a LOT of adjustments, and trying to find just the right cone. Some have been better than others. Not sure which batch you got, Sergei, but I'd be interested to know how the sound was... email me at lathecuts-AAAT-yahoooooo-dawt-cawm... Any feedback you can give us will help us dial this thing in! Jerry keeps pretty good notes about what he does to each batch, and I'm guessing what batch he sends everyone, so if there is a problem with yours, we will know which batch, what he did, and we can fix it.
I Buy/Sell/Restore Vintage Machines/Parts and Provide Phone/In Person Tech Support
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
hey uvoscillator nice sound!
what format do you use for embossing?
what format do you use for embossing?
uvoscillator wrote:Hi there !
Just receive and done first testing Jerry's steel styli.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281196676466
I've take cone ones and try to emboss with them. With comparing to sapphire.
Anything was done as usual - WD-40 for lubricating, 60-70C heating with lamp.
Jerry's cone:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/saph_test.wav
Sapphire:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1235999/steelstylitest/steel_test.wav
I've experimented with steel before and Jerry's styli works very good for steel, but as you can see sapphire is out of competition.
Can't say how much they will last. This needs to do different research
Good luck !
Sergey
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
Those grooves look nice! Promising.
Cutting, Inventing & Innovating
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
Groove Graphics, VMS Halfnuts, MIDI Automation, Professional Stereo Feedback Cutterheads, and Pesto 1-D Cutterhead Clones
Cutterhead Repair: Recoiling, Cleaning, Cloning of Screws, Dampers & More
http://mantra.audio
- uvoscillator
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am
- Location: Russia, St.Petersburg
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
thanks ! here sounds a bit overmodulatedGus wrote:hey uvoscillator nice sound!
what format do you use for embossing?
what do you mean 'format' ?
I can emboss all sizes, just expected how to heat big ones with hot water ))
Best !
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
sorry for my bad english
i mean what material do you use for embossing
i mean what material do you use for embossing
uvoscillator wrote:thanks ! here sounds a bit overmodulatedGus wrote:hey uvoscillator nice sound!
what format do you use for embossing?
what do you mean 'format' ?
I can emboss all sizes, just expected how to heat big ones with hot water ))
- uvoscillator
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am
- Location: Russia, St.Petersburg
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
no problem, for me is also not native language ))Gus wrote:sorry for my bad english
i mean what material do you use for embossing
I'm embossing polycarbonate, check this forum about it, here is a lot of information
about it
Best !
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
When I get back to Tucson, I will send some pics of the grooves I'm cutting with Jerry's cones... they look and sound really good. His current batch is really top notch when combines with lighter fluid.
I Buy/Sell/Restore Vintage Machines/Parts and Provide Phone/In Person Tech Support
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com
- uvoscillator
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am
- Location: Russia, St.Petersburg
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
need to try again than ! and what about horns ? that is my main problem when embossing (
Best !
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
I have made some improvements since my first batch of cone needles in steel. They are more smooth, and since my PR man, Mike, has been using lighter fluid (Ronsonol in the yellow bottle) to prep the polycarbonate discs that removes gunk from the peel away plastic, he has been getting some very good cuts with my cones. He sent me a disc of some music he cut with my needles and it sounded very good.opcode66 wrote:Those grooves look nice! Promising.
Jerry
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
I have not tested Jerry's styli yet (though I will soon), but I'm thinking you need more heat on the blank.uvoscillator wrote:need to try again than ! and what about horns ? that is my main problem when embossing (
do you use a heat lamp?
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com
- uvoscillator
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am
- Location: Russia, St.Petersburg
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
yep, sure! start when blank around 65Ctragwag wrote:I have not tested Jerry's styli yet (though I will soon), but I'm thinking you need more heat on the blank.uvoscillator wrote:need to try again than ! and what about horns ? that is my main problem when embossing (
do you use a heat lamp?
as far I can understand heat and pressure is important in embossing, but also this two factors gives horns too.
I'm embossing with backward sapphires with about 90 degrees angle, sounds perfect, but horns...
Best !
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
There will always be at discharge, but you harder than when cutting a groove, you can convert a 20 micron square times the pressure of the knife on this micro surface, times the surface of the disc, comes more than 100 tonnes on 12-inch plate
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
Horns are unavoidable with embossing. If you don't want horns, you've got to cut and remove chip with a vacuum... When the material leaves the groove, it's gotta go somewhere... either up the vacuum or up to the side of the groove.
I took a record I embossed with Jerry's needles to Len Horowitz yesterday. He was blown away by the fidelity and low noise floor. However, he noticed missing highs. So he looks at the groove and said "looks more like a standard groove than a microgroove, by the shape of it". So he put a standard stylus in his cartridge and voila... here came all the highs and it sounded incredible. The highs were there, some of them just weren't able to be played by the micro stylus.
So, Jerry and I are now working to figure out how to get a stylus that cuts a groove that is closer to a microgroove.
Of course, each cut with each needle is a little different. This particular recorder was darker than many that I had cut, so the needle could have been worn down more after hours and hours of use.
Even with the limitations of the current batch, they are still an incredible bargain and will get the amateur hobbyist wanting to play with plastic much easier and consistent results than even a turned around sapphire stylus.
I took a record I embossed with Jerry's needles to Len Horowitz yesterday. He was blown away by the fidelity and low noise floor. However, he noticed missing highs. So he looks at the groove and said "looks more like a standard groove than a microgroove, by the shape of it". So he put a standard stylus in his cartridge and voila... here came all the highs and it sounded incredible. The highs were there, some of them just weren't able to be played by the micro stylus.
So, Jerry and I are now working to figure out how to get a stylus that cuts a groove that is closer to a microgroove.
Of course, each cut with each needle is a little different. This particular recorder was darker than many that I had cut, so the needle could have been worn down more after hours and hours of use.
Even with the limitations of the current batch, they are still an incredible bargain and will get the amateur hobbyist wanting to play with plastic much easier and consistent results than even a turned around sapphire stylus.
I Buy/Sell/Restore Vintage Machines/Parts and Provide Phone/In Person Tech Support
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com
www.MichaelDixonVinylArt.com
www.LatheCutCamp.com
www.RecordLatheParts.com
www.MobileVinylRecorders.com
www.LatheCuts.com
- uvoscillator
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 1:37 am
- Location: Russia, St.Petersburg
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
I wish I can meet Len just to have talk
Yes, I also noticed, that not all playback needles plays good.
Thanks for keep us updated!
Yes, I also noticed, that not all playback needles plays good.
Thanks for keep us updated!
Best !
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
I just want to add my two cents to this discussion.
I've been embossing on poly for over a year now, making lathe cut records.
I used Jerry's embossing cones for the first time this past week, and they've performed very well.
As you can see from the above posts, the groove geometry is right on.
I found the tracking, groove depth, and source volume very easy to set.
These cones are, if I had to quantify it, probably 90% as good as a sapphire for embossing in terms of sound quality, groove geometry, and ease of use. I have not tested the longevity yet.
The best part is, they are readily available, and super affordable.
I commend Jerry for taking this on, and providing a great product that virtually anyone can purchase.
(Let it be known that I have no professional affiliation with Jerry, I bought these styli on ebay for $10, like anyone else)
I've been embossing on poly for over a year now, making lathe cut records.
I used Jerry's embossing cones for the first time this past week, and they've performed very well.
As you can see from the above posts, the groove geometry is right on.
I found the tracking, groove depth, and source volume very easy to set.
These cones are, if I had to quantify it, probably 90% as good as a sapphire for embossing in terms of sound quality, groove geometry, and ease of use. I have not tested the longevity yet.
The best part is, they are readily available, and super affordable.
I commend Jerry for taking this on, and providing a great product that virtually anyone can purchase.
(Let it be known that I have no professional affiliation with Jerry, I bought these styli on ebay for $10, like anyone else)
making lathe cuts on a Presto 6N, HIFI stereo cuts on vinylrecorder
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com
at Audio Geography Studios, Providence, RI USA
http://www.audiogeography.com
- Lima Victor
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:43 pm
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
I'm considering buying one of these stylii (can be found at http://www.ebay.com/itm/Record-lathe-cutter-presto-record-in-stylus-needle-styli-rek-o-kut-recorder-/281255271864?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417c1eddb8 )
But i'm doubting which one to choose. Of course, i could try it out, but i'm a poor college student so if i can save $10 i will
Can the cone be used for both polyacrilate and acetate sheets? The local arts & crafts store has fairly thick acetate sheets for cheap, those are much easier to obtain than polyacrilate disks in my area. However, polyacrilate is a tried and tested material and gives nicer looking results.
I'd like to experiment with both materials, but i'm building a cutting head myself and the stylus will be permanently mounted in it. So i have to settle on one stylus. Could the embossing cone also be used for the acetate sheets? Those sheets look like overhead projection sheets but slightly thicker - a bit like the base of photographic film, without the light sensitive coating.
But i'm doubting which one to choose. Of course, i could try it out, but i'm a poor college student so if i can save $10 i will
Can the cone be used for both polyacrilate and acetate sheets? The local arts & crafts store has fairly thick acetate sheets for cheap, those are much easier to obtain than polyacrilate disks in my area. However, polyacrilate is a tried and tested material and gives nicer looking results.
I'd like to experiment with both materials, but i'm building a cutting head myself and the stylus will be permanently mounted in it. So i have to settle on one stylus. Could the embossing cone also be used for the acetate sheets? Those sheets look like overhead projection sheets but slightly thicker - a bit like the base of photographic film, without the light sensitive coating.
Re: testing Jerry's steel cone styli
Hi, since you will be embossing/engraving the cone will be either way the only choice. The other two types, the triangular ones, are for cutting. I haven't tried acetat sheets by myself so far because I don't know where to buy them near me, but I guess the cone will suit as well.