Why cut inside out?

This is where record cutters raise questions about cutting, and trade wisdom and experiment results. We love Scully, Neumann, Presto, & Rek-O-Kut lathes and Wilcox-Gay Recordios (among others). We are excited by the various modern pro and semi-pro systems, too, in production and development. We use strange, extinct disc-based dictation machines. And other stuff, too.

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Jesus H Chrysler
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Location: Asheville, NC

Why cut inside out?

Post: # 45208Unread post Jesus H Chrysler
Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:41 pm

Just wondering why it was an option on the older cutters . What would have been the advantages?

Aussie0zborn
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Re: Why cut inside out?

Post: # 45210Unread post Aussie0zborn
Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:36 am

For for the purposes of radio transcription discs where one radio program was spread out over two sides of a record. Note the inner groove distortion and high frequency roll-off as the record nears the end of each side. When you flip the record over after an ad break, you play Side 2 from outside-in so that there is no immediate increase in fidelity. As the fidelity rolled off gradually across Side 1 it will now roll back in gradually on Side 2.

The only reason to do it an outside-in cut today would be so you could put your quietest song at the start of the side and build up to the loudest punchiest song being the last track on that side. Or you could do it just to be different.

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EpicenterBryan
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Re: Why cut inside out?

Post: # 45211Unread post EpicenterBryan
Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:14 pm

I'll chime in as well.

Alan Graves showed me a great trick related to inside - out cutting.
For experimenting, and assuming you don't have a vacuum system working right, cutting inside - out always leaves the swarf where grooves have already been cut with no brushing out of the way. That makes it really handy if you are tending to other things while the cut is happening.

Bryan

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olleramm
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Re: Why cut inside out?

Post: # 45219Unread post olleramm
Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:35 pm

Swedsh Radio, and other Broadcaster in europe had a Lathe that cut from inside out on the whole 14 inch... not for making records, but to play on radio... as many classical music had a tendency to build up energy over time.... they used this in house cutting to gain quality through the exiting end.... then in the outer groove.... it was only used for internal use and plyback.

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grooveguy
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Re: Why cut inside out?

Post: # 45577Unread post grooveguy
Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:54 pm

The late Bob Morrison cited three reasons for the 'strange practice' of cutting inside-out:
1 - As AussieOzborn stated, there was less sonic difference in the 'middle' of the program when the transcription was flipped-over, providing that
the first side was cut outside-in, and the flip side inside-out.
2 - And as accurately attributed to Alan Graves by EpicenterBryan, the cutting stylus didn't have to run over the chip, or the chip didn't have to be
brushed out of the way. I believe it was the Packard-Bell consumer recorders of the '40s that cut inside-out for just this reason.
3 - Particularly with steel styli, the groove was quiet at the start of the recording, in the center, before it became dulled. As
the groove velocity increased toward the outside, the dulled stylus had an advantage and still cut a fairly quiet groove.

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