vinyl recorder t-560 external motor calibration with 1210

[Hedelain]

Calling people who have the vinyl recorder T-560, a technics 1210 mk2, and an external motor!

I have just got the external motor for my setup as I was experiencing quite a lot of wow and flutter for even quite simple cuts. It seems that my 1210 motor is missing torque, which is not such an uncommon problem, I guess from reading here. I did what I could to take the 1210 apart, clean and oil it, but the problem persists.

So getting the external motor should solve the problem, but I am getting some weird results. The theory is that the external motor should run a very little faster and by turning the 1210 motor on, it should brake and speed would be perfect. But here is what I am experiencing. I can adjust the external motor to run slightly faster, but when I turn on the 1210 motor the speed goes all strange. Either it is going even faster or slowwing down too much. By turning the 1210 off again, the external motor runs slower than before. I can adjust again, but by turning the 1210 on, the speed goes all strange again.

So what is happening?

Has anyone of you experienced the same while trying to set it up? And how did you solve it?

I suspect the brake on the 1210 to be the problem, but could it be? Could I cleanthe adjustment (VR201) on the print? How do I adjust it again?

Sorry for the many questions. I appreciate any help and advice, and hopefully other people can benefit from the answers.

Thanks!

[The Shank]

Adjust with the 2 little screw first, then with the one in the middle for the precision and it’s done

[SueDenim]

Don't use the 1210 motor at all.
Just the external motor via the belt drive.

[Hedelain]

Adjust with the 2 little screw first, then with the one in the middle for the precision and it’s done

Yes, these are the instructions I am following. But the problem is that is behaves very strange when doing so. I adjust for slightly too fast and then start the 1210. It goes even faster, so I use the knob to turn it down to correct speed. Then when I stop the 1210 motor, it goes too slow. And so it goes back and forth...

[Hedelain]

Don't use the 1210 motor at all.
Just the external motor via the belt drive.

That sounds like a good option, although not as powerfull as having two motors running - or really motor and a brake. Is it powerfull enough to run on its own?

Sometimes I wish the t-560 would have fitted a broadcast standard turntable like the Dynacord IST 104.

[markrob]

Hi,

I don't own a VR, but I was very surprised that the add on motor was supposed to be used in conjunction with the SL1200 internal motor. I could not understand how that could work. In effect, you would have two servo's fighting each other. Not a good thing. SueDenim's post makes much more sense.

Mark

[The Shank]

You have to adjust with the SL turning ABSOLUTELY.

[Hedelain]

Are you saying two different things? 1210 motor (brake) running or not. They will be fighting eachother, but it makes sense that the external motor gives speed, and the 1210 holds back more or less to keep the torque. But what if the brake malfunctions?

[The Shank]

Yes I mean running... external just give torq. The quartz lock of the technics will do the job. You have to synchronize the both, easy, 2 minutes it’s done.

[Hedelain]

Yes I mean running... external just give torq. The quartz lock of the technics will do the job. You have to synchronize the both, easy, 2 minutes it’s done.

So my point is, what if the quartz of the technics is faulty? I have adjusted and then experienced that the external motor is running too slow. Would that not remove torque and make the 1210 work even harder?

The two motors will never run at excact same speed and will allways be competing.

Or does neither of it matter very much as long as I can get the proper speed no matter how?

[markrob]

Hi,

Is it possible that the external motor is running open loop and not controlled by a any tach/speed feedback? If that's the case, it might work to have both motors running.

Mark

[emidisc]

Anyone got details of the external motor

[Hedelain]

Hi,

Is it possible that the external motor is running open loop and not controlled by a any tach/speed feedback? If that's the case, it might work to have both motors running.

Mark

I think it is not controlled by any feedback. This is also based on the included instructions, where the 1210 controls the speed by braking more or less.

[Ben]

Hey There,

I don't know about all the technicality but for sure, how Souri showed me to do it is :

1. Power on the SL but don't start spinning
2. Start your external motor and adjust for it to be a little ahead on your strobe, just a little bit faster (or forward if you prefer)
3. Start the SL and it will slow down and lock it

This is only for 33 1/3.... for 45 you adjust your motor right on with the strobe with the SL powered on but not turning.

That's what Souri showed, and it works for me,
Cheers
Ben

[Hedelain]

Hey There,

I don't know about all the technicality but for sure, how Souri showed me to do it is :

1. Power on the SL but don't start spinning
2. Start your external motor and adjust for it to be a little ahead on your strobe, just a little bit faster (or forward if you prefer)
3. Start the SL and it will slow down and lock it

This is only for 33 1/3.... for 45 you adjust your motor right on with the strobe with the SL powered on but not turning.

That's what Souri showed, and it works for me,
Cheers
Ben

Thanks Ben. This is the procedure I am following. The thing is that when I start the 1210, it does not slow down - it speeds up. If I then fine tune it and turn off the 1210, the external motor is running at slower speed.

One question though. How much is "just a little bit faster?" Is it clearly visible or slightly visible the way the strobe is moving forward? Thanks.

[handcut]

I don't have Souri's motor, but there are a couple of common 12XX faults you can check that will cause torque and speed problems:

Tiny, hair-like copper wires going to hall sensors in stator assembly - if they are broken, you will get speed regulation problems.

The bearing. Famously the weakest element in these tables. They get a lot of abuse, particularly when you put a 4kg steel platter on there! Strip and re-lube with Anderol 465. Check thrust plate for an indentation.

Before upgrading to an SP deck, I was really considering a Mike New bearing, but they were the same price as a S/H SP10, so it just didn't make sense. If somebody were to create an upgraded SL12XX bearing that was affordable I think they would make a killing...

[Ben]

Hey ,
I would say it's moving very slowly forward... but it's clearly visible.. I'd send you a video but I'm not at my studio for the next 10-15 days...sorry.

One thing specific that I've learned through out the years with the motor... is that the order in which you start the machines is super important... maybe not for others ... but for me If I let the SL turning and try to start the motor... it will never lock. But If I just turn on the SL... start the motor and after start the SL... all is good.

Your problem is something I've never faced... are you sure you calibrate your motor with the strobe while the SL is turned on but not spining?

[SueDenim]

One thing I forgot to mention before is to make sure that you've fully cleaned all the preset pots and switches on the external motor control box.
Really work in some de-oxit or other switch cleaner as I've definitely experienced speed fluctuations from the motor if there's any oxidisation in the pots/switches.

[Hedelain]

One thing I forgot to mention before is to make sure that you've fully cleaned all the preset pots and switches on the external motor control box.
Really work in some de-oxit or other switch cleaner as I've definitely experienced speed fluctuations from the motor if there's any oxidisation in the pots/switches.

Thanks. Does that also happen with a brand new motor?

[SueDenim]

I'd say that a new motor should be totally clean... however, it can't hurt to clean the pots and switches to rule that out as a problem!